How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

[Wilf]

Can that story be sourced though Wilf? Not doubting that you heard it, and it is believable, but I'd like to see a link to the story ....

There's a bit here on the original story (though not much more than the details that have been in the papers over the last day or two).
http://rochdaleraw.blogspot.co.uk/2009/10/cyril-smith-to-be-hung-at-rochdale-town.html

There's also a bit here about the file itself:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...il-Smith-sex-abuse-dossier-seized-by-MI5.html

when I worked at the Town Hall (83-4 I think) there was a kind of mantra about a 'file an inch think in the police station' which was over the road. From the telegraph piece above it may well no longer have been there - but there was certainly general knowledge that there had been a police investigation. Whether that was simply an awareness of the 1979 RAP/Private Eye story - or whether council officers had other sources of info - I just can't remember.

I mentioned above detesting his arsehole of a brother, Norman Smith, as a petty bully. Cyril Smith was loathed beyond compare for his attempts to sell himself as a people's saviour against the 'bureaucrats'. What that boiled down to was his ability to land even the most juior officers in it - as well as a truly obnoxious pesonal manner. Well remember looking down from the window at the front of the town hall at the post office and seeing him coming out on a really icy day. His little feet were sliding all over the fucking shop and there was a group of us in football crowd mode, willing gravity to take its course. Sadly the nonce retained the vertical.

 

[free spirit]

Fucking hell....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...il-Smith-sex-abuse-dossier-seized-by-MI5.html

well this could be interesting then.

watch the attack dogs be let lose on this whistle blower. I hope he's not got too many skeletons.

 

[Badger Kitten]

They keep throwing corpses to the media.

This so stinks.

Everyone knows it stinks.

They are banking on people getting bored and moving on.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

They keep throwing corpses to the media.

This so stinks.

Everyone knows it stinks.

They are banking on people getting bored and moving on.

Thing is, they are scared shitless of going for living folk for still obvious reasons.

It could be that "they" are just "throwing corpses" rather than "throw nothing", or it could be that they want to do that rather than ask questions of police (or CPS in cases such as Cyril Smith) rather than (especially) the BBC.

Or maybe "they" think the demand is for PAEDO NEWS!!! over genuine investigation, it also being cheaper and less risky in many ways.

Could be a bunch of stuff, but in any instance, cases against the living will take a long time and once arrests happen, and especially charges laid, there is an understandable blackout.

It's understandable that people are impatient after decades, but any pre-trial silence is understandable too.

It's like another contradictory dynamic that haunts all this - the correct procedure is to both believe the victim and assume the alleged is innocent. That's a logical impossibility from which much flows.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_mindcon03.htm

May have been posted before, but probably worth doing again given length of thread.

This is not directly UK relevant at first sight but could well be, it is very long but the more pertinent stuff is in earlier sections.

It was pointed to me by a UK citizen who says they were affected by such matters. I don't know the person very well and they discussed it very little. Some people know them better say they are inclined to believe them.

Elsewise it speaks for itself. Aspects do read as if they are from the "Foil Hat" Folder and I daresay they are a plethora of debunks and counter-debunks online. Anyhow, judge for yourselves. Interested in thoughts.

 

[nino_savatte]

well this could be interesting then.

watch the attack dogs be let lose on this whistle blower. I hope he's not got too many skeletons.

I was looking at the LibDem voice website last night and they're screaming "Labour smears".

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

I was looking at the LibDem voice website last night and they're screaming "Labour smears".

Any and all party politicisation of this issue is further exploitation of victims IMO.

There's plenty wrong with any party if you look hard enough, so as not to pretend that there is decent evidence of abusers being of one political stripe or another.

 

[Wilf]

Blue plaque removed from Rochdale Town Hall (a 'neutral act' to avoid vandalism y'know):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-20337495

We'll need a museum for all this redacted pervo-civic statuary.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I was looking at the LibDem voice website last night and they're screaming "Labour smears".

Perhaps they should rename themselves "Tory echo chamber"?

 

[nino_savatte]

Perhaps they should rename themselves "Tory echo chamber"?

They've lost whatever identity they had and seem to have developed full-blown Stockholm Syndrome. Maybe I'm being too kind, they've always sided with the Tories. The Coalition Coupon ?

 

[SaskiaJayne]

When they said earlier on the news that police had arrested 'a man in his 60s from Bedfordshire' I guessed correctly who it was. He has just been named on the news.

eta..Ah! I see there is a thread already running on this. Its hard to know what to post on which nonce thread these days.

 

[Buckaroo]

They keep throwing corpses to the media.

This so stinks.

Everyone knows it stinks.

They are banking on people getting bored and moving on.

The corpses should be prosecuted too but not in a Saville way, allegedly.

Think this has a momentum of its own, can't see a time when we say 'This is over, no more questions.'
They are being pragmatic but they're playing pass the parcel with semtex, some form of poetic justice, the ghosts of abuse are wreaking havoc. Good for them.

 

[Corax]

Do we have any idea who the Cambridgeshire arrest was yet? It's been very quiet on that front...

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

I'm still trying to figure out what this argument is about between certain people on Twitter

 

[Corax]

They are banking on people getting bored and moving on.

What's the betting we have an unrelated but very big domestic news story via some leaked info shortly?

 

[Corax]

I'm still trying to figure out what this argument is about between certain people on Twitter

What people?

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

What people?

Messham, ryantanner, Angleseydrift, realjimmyjones etc.

I get what some of it's about re Messham, but a bit confused with what else is going on behind the scenes.

 

[Corax]

Messham, ryantanner, Angleseydrift, realjimmyjones etc.

I get what some of it's about re Messham, but a bit confused with what else is going on behind the scenes.

Anglesey at least appears to be a bryn estyn boy. But the implications from Messham's tweets could be read as meaning that he was more complicit than victim.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm still trying to figure out what this argument is about between certain people on Twitter

It's between some bitter twitter bullshitters no doubt

 

[Corax]

Messham, ryantanner, Angleseydrift, realjimmyjones etc.

I get what some of it's about re Messham, but a bit confused with what else is going on behind the scenes.

Anglesey at least appears to be a bryn estyn boy. But the implications from Messham's tweets could be read as meaning that he was more complicit than victim.

Have you seen this? http://renegadesblog.wordpress.com/

RJJ's blog. I may have misread the 'falling out', as the tone of that blog reads as more pissed off with the retraction, than the accusation. Pissed off that he retracted it? Pissed off that he didn't explain why Alistair McAlpine had been mistaken for someone else who did abuse him/them?

On an entirely unrelated note - Jimmy's name seems to have dropped off the radar. Has that been shown as implausible too?


Several tweets stating that Steven Messham's in Wrexham hospital right now. Hope he's alright.

 

[DJ Squelch]

A lot of grief seems to be over the setting up of NORWAS, from reading Laverty's blog & twitter.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Have you seen this? http://renegadesblog.wordpress.com/

RJJ's blog. I may have misread the 'falling out', as the tone of that blog reads as more pissed off with the retraction, than the accusation. Pissed off that he retracted it? Pissed off that he didn't explain why Alistair McAlpine had been mistaken for someone else who did abuse him/them?

On an entirely unrelated note - Jimmy's name seems to have dropped off the radar. Has that been shown as implausible too?


Several tweets stating that Steven Messham's in Wrexham hospital right now. Hope he's alright.

Yeah, a few of them have blogs going. Jimmy Jones (if that's who you're speaking about) is still on there. Messham went to hospital the other night, but it sounds like he's back in.

As for what's going on between them all, it's more than the McA stuff and Norwas I think.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

A lot of grief seems to be over the setting up of NORWAS, from reading Laverty's blog & twitter.

and Messham threatened to out him for something the other day, but then held back, although he did reveal his name, and so Laverty revealed himself

It's all very messy

 

[Corax]

As for what's going on between them all, it's more than the McA stuff and Norwas I think.

It looked pretty expected stuff given their shared backgrounds/experiences to me - but I've only been able to skim through stuff really. What do you mean?

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

It looked pretty expected stuff given their shared backgrounds/experiences to me - but I've only been able to skim through stuff really. What do you mean?

Well why they're slagging each other off other than the McA and Norwas stuff, and the possibility that SM may be making up stuff. It's just all a bit off. Not saying I disbelieve any of them, but it's got to the point where with this slagging each other off (especially in public), they're really not doing themselves any favours and people are going to get hurt all over again

Can't really explain myself properly on a public board I'm afraid

 

[Corax]

Well why they're slagging each other off other than the McA and Norwas stuff, and the possibility that SM may be making up stuff. It's just all a bit off. Not saying I disbelieve any of them, but it's got to the point where with this slagging each other off (especially in public), they're really not doing themselves any favours and people are going to get hurt all over again

Can't really explain myself properly on a public board I'm afraid

I was putting most of that down to the situation and the scars.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

I was putting most of that down to the situation and the scars.

Well yes, that's understandable, but....

 

[caoineadh7]

Bit tired right now but would suggest that the 'not in the public interest' thing is just as much of a story as the MI5 bit, if not more so.

Much can be justified using such terms, eg not in the states interest to have political classes undermined by child sex abuse allegations.

Makes you wonder how much other stuff like this MI5 suppress from becoming public.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Anglesey at least appears to be a bryn estyn boy. But the implications from Messham's tweets could be read as meaning that he was more complicit than victim.

Gordon Anglesea was a Chief Superintendent who was cleared of abuse. He was allegedly also a mason. He was named as someone had visited Bryn Estyn. He took libel action and won several hundred thousand pounds IIRC.

 

[Barking_Mad]

The Original Scallwag magazine is now online - im not sure if it's wise to link to it given the names it names....suggestions?