Hootananny pub (formerly Hobgoblin)
- Thread starter madolesance
- Start date
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
editor said:
Never known Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs get places open for as short a time as Hootananny for income tax/VAT issues. Did this story come from the same source as the earlier e-mails about the proprietors?
mark dodds
J Mark Dodds
Pubs closing down
Do you know about tied pubs? Do you know that most (the vast majority) of pubs in the UK are run by individuals on leases from PubCos who oblige them to buy beer from the freeholder's nominated supplier at outrageously high wholesale prices (such as £1.20 a bottle of Becks - yes the same Becks you can get in a an offie or supermarket on offer for .49p).
That's why so many pubs go out of business. Pure and complicated.
Do you know about tied pubs? Do you know that most (the vast majority) of pubs in the UK are run by individuals on leases from PubCos who oblige them to buy beer from the freeholder's nominated supplier at outrageously high wholesale prices (such as £1.20 a bottle of Becks - yes the same Becks you can get in a an offie or supermarket on offer for .49p).
That's why so many pubs go out of business. Pure and complicated.
mark dodds
J Mark Dodds
Ol Nick n' HOOT
By the way. That's why beer's so expensive - and the publicans still don't make enough profit on it to earn a crust - or to be able to pay tax -. I forgot to mention RENT which invariably increases way above inflation. Many rent reviews on full repairing insuring leases (where the lessee has total responsibility for every last bit of brick, mortar, timbers, wiring plumbing tom cobbly and all, maintenance and repair) see rises in excess of 50% at review. None of it is sutainable. In effect most pubs selling a pint for less than £4.00 is using beer as a loss leader to get customers in to buy other stuff which is not necessarily tied. There are, however, some leases where even the bleach and sausages have to be bought from the Freeholders' suppliers. None of this practice is legal in Europe, the States or most other sensible countries. It was supposedto end here in 1998 but our Pub industry got block exemption from European law on the grounds that if the tie wer to end, thousands of pubs would shut down. Not wuite. If teh tie wer to end. Millions of pounds of profit would come back from the Freeholders and into the pockets of the lessees, beer prices would drop and lessees would end up spending their profits on improving their businesses.
So, to Ol Nick above:
DO NOT BUY the Hoot. You will lose your shirt.
By the way. That's why beer's so expensive - and the publicans still don't make enough profit on it to earn a crust - or to be able to pay tax -. I forgot to mention RENT which invariably increases way above inflation. Many rent reviews on full repairing insuring leases (where the lessee has total responsibility for every last bit of brick, mortar, timbers, wiring plumbing tom cobbly and all, maintenance and repair) see rises in excess of 50% at review. None of it is sutainable. In effect most pubs selling a pint for less than £4.00 is using beer as a loss leader to get customers in to buy other stuff which is not necessarily tied. There are, however, some leases where even the bleach and sausages have to be bought from the Freeholders' suppliers. None of this practice is legal in Europe, the States or most other sensible countries. It was supposedto end here in 1998 but our Pub industry got block exemption from European law on the grounds that if the tie wer to end, thousands of pubs would shut down. Not wuite. If teh tie wer to end. Millions of pounds of profit would come back from the Freeholders and into the pockets of the lessees, beer prices would drop and lessees would end up spending their profits on improving their businesses.
So, to Ol Nick above:
DO NOT BUY the Hoot. You will lose your shirt.
mark dodds
J Mark Dodds
If any of you are facebook users there's a new cause - Individual Pub Landlords vs the Giant PubCo's - there that's growing at about five recruits a day slowly but surely: http://apps.facebook.com/causes/view_cause/32953?h=plw&recruiter_id=3435535
editor
hiraethified
I went there last night and it was great - way better than I expected. The front bar was closed so we were with the friendly, mixed crowd in the main room.
There was a black soul/funk band playing who were providing the backing to several singing acts. The music wasn't really my kind of thing, but the standard was high - I got talking to some of the players later on and they were all established musos.
The bar staff were very friendly too, there were two real ales on tap, the vibe was good, the live sound excellent, the decor welcoming and there wasn't a babbling bagpipe to be heard. Compared to how dark and grimy the DJ nights were in the old Hob*, they've done a pretty good job of making the place more welcoming - and the more live music going on in Brixton the better as far as I'm concerned. Nice one!
(*I didn't mind that myself of course!).
There was a black soul/funk band playing who were providing the backing to several singing acts. The music wasn't really my kind of thing, but the standard was high - I got talking to some of the players later on and they were all established musos.
The bar staff were very friendly too, there were two real ales on tap, the vibe was good, the live sound excellent, the decor welcoming and there wasn't a babbling bagpipe to be heard. Compared to how dark and grimy the DJ nights were in the old Hob*, they've done a pretty good job of making the place more welcoming - and the more live music going on in Brixton the better as far as I'm concerned. Nice one!
(*I didn't mind that myself of course!).
clandestino
no llevar papel
So basically they've thought "we have to adapt or die" and adapted to suit Brixton? Good for them.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Sounds like the obvous next step would be to drop the Scottish thing altogether.
colacubes
Mr Hot Cookie
Well the posters of the moderately attractive Scottish girl with a mini-kilt and bagpipes that was adorning the tube station appears to have gone so there's hope...
Yep, the initial live scottish music every night policy was dropped fairly swiftly. Now it's got to the stage where there's always a funk or reggae act on at the 10 of after slot on Fridays. Recently Dawn Penn was down there, as was Levi Roots, complete with his barbecue and bottles of sauce to sell.
Sadly it's ailing for most of the week, and for most of the weekends unless they've a decent sporting game. In which case it's still a good place to watch the sport. Bar for a few hours at the weekends, when the bands can draw a few, it's pretty quiet.
Worryingly desperate signs too. The Thai place is now serving an English Menu, complete with a £5 hotdog and they've stupidly somehow lost the busy and excellent Brixton Comedy Club to the Dogstar, trying to start their own alternative at the same time to mixed success. Bar staff are changing over rapidly and often for the worst. A recent leaflet drop, offering a free drink token along side the band listing, seems to have backfired rather than attracting new customers. Dropping wedges of leaflets into the communal halls of local estate blocks wasn't perhaps the best move, not judging by the happily pissed old faces brandishing flyers in abundance.
Mixed report really - something needed to be done, but it's a strangely watered down failing concept. Better to judge it in summer really - they've got a real chance with that beer garden and a warm summer.
editor
hiraethified
You're quick to criticise, but having a go at them for trying to publicise their nights with flyers seems a little harsh.
I went there yesterday expecting absolutely nothing but it was certainly more lively and more welcoming than the last couple of times I'd been to the Hob (closing night excluded).
They've spent money on the place, they're putting on live music, the bar is no longer a mess overflowing with empty glasses, the staff were friendlier and they had a laid back, mixed Brixton crowd in.
It may not be exactly to your (or my) tastes, but if they hadn't tried something new and a bit different - even if it did go off at half cock - you might be looking at a closed pub by now. At least it's still open and it looks like the owners are investing time and money trying to get it right.
So why are you so almost always negative? What do you think they should do?
hendo
Fish finger sandwiches
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
The Thai food remains excellent and they serve a decent pint of Deuchars. The gents is considerably less unpleasant than it has been for a decade.
But ... the Scottish food on Burns night was several leagues below what the Thai kitchen turns out (it would be facing relegation from the Irn Bru Third Division). Tatties and neeps were lukewarm and the haggis was distinctly second rate.
But ... the Scottish food on Burns night was several leagues below what the Thai kitchen turns out (it would be facing relegation from the Irn Bru Third Division). Tatties and neeps were lukewarm and the haggis was distinctly second rate.
clandestino
no llevar papel
Dawn Penn! Blimey!
teuchter
je suis teuchter
http://www.musicisthebest.org/hoots/Hootsbrixtonceilidhbarwhatson.htm
Yup, the Scottish music seems to be confined to Monday-Thursday nights now.
Presumably even that's not enough to keep the old grumps like Tarannau happy....
Yup, the Scottish music seems to be confined to Monday-Thursday nights now.
Presumably even that's not enough to keep the old grumps like Tarannau happy....
editor
hiraethified
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
Scottish food, don't get me started....believe me this sounds a notch or two above the standard Burn's Night meal in an actual Scottish pub.
billythefish
toad licker
I was very pleasantly surprised when I dropped by in the lead up to Christmas... there was an excellent singer on stage with a violinist and bass player (sorry I forget her name), followed by a local soul duo.
It was so good I summoned a few more friends on the phone.
Although the bar was fairly empty, it was very friendly, well serviced, beer good and a great atmosphere, and it did mean we could get a seat easily and hear ourselves think.
The only thing lacking was a roaring fire and a view of the mountains out of the window... it was rather surreal leaving the pub afterwards, back to the bowels of Brixton Water Lane ;-)
It was so good I summoned a few more friends on the phone.
Although the bar was fairly empty, it was very friendly, well serviced, beer good and a great atmosphere, and it did mean we could get a seat easily and hear ourselves think.
The only thing lacking was a roaring fire and a view of the mountains out of the window... it was rather surreal leaving the pub afterwards, back to the bowels of Brixton Water Lane ;-)
True, but word of mouth seems to be negative about this place if anything. Apart from sport the custom's stable or declining.\
To be fair to them they've taken steps to reverse the decline. Dropping the Scottish music policy and reducing the number of parping midweek players to avoid forcing people out has helped a little, but some of the damage was done. Events such as the Open Mic sessions have been humiliatingly bad, the new comedy night's failing, they even had to drop their prices for New Years Eve at the last minute to try and drag up some custom - that's a time when they should have capitalised on the whole Hootenanny/Scottish thing.
I still drink in there a fair bit, but it's quieter than it was on many an occasion. Staff are nice enough, but it's still halfway house in there. Shame really - it feels a little desperate in there a lot of the time. There's not the consistency or belief in what they're doing (see new Thai/English menu and bizarre Celidh/Reggae nights) and it shows.
To be fair to them they've taken steps to reverse the decline. Dropping the Scottish music policy and reducing the number of parping midweek players to avoid forcing people out has helped a little, but some of the damage was done. Events such as the Open Mic sessions have been humiliatingly bad, the new comedy night's failing, they even had to drop their prices for New Years Eve at the last minute to try and drag up some custom - that's a time when they should have capitalised on the whole Hootenanny/Scottish thing.
I still drink in there a fair bit, but it's quieter than it was on many an occasion. Staff are nice enough, but it's still halfway house in there. Shame really - it feels a little desperate in there a lot of the time. There's not the consistency or belief in what they're doing (see new Thai/English menu and bizarre Celidh/Reggae nights) and it shows.
Actually that wasn't meant to be particularly harsh. It was more an indication that the management seem to be gettting a little desperate and dont seem to be thinking things through adequately. Printing all those flyers without terms and conditions was simply daft, a schoolboy error.
The management are nice enough, but they've some unusual thoughts when you talk to them. They seem to think that they're in competition with Wetherspoons, the Goose and even the Academy rather than other local pubs and the sofa at home. To be fair to them they're trying after a dodgy start, but it's been a hard lesson for them.
My recommendations? Open the smaller bar up so that people walking down busier Brixton Water Lane can pop in. Bring back the pool table to encourage some daytime custom - it's so deathly in there of late that people often look in and then turn around again during the day. Drop the idea that Scottish sport should be prioritised whatever - having more than a bar's worth watching Arsenal on a small screen and less than 2 people watching Rangers in the massive room. Retain staff for longer and employ better (there's one lady in there who's painfully slow) stop reserving the best of too few tables for their mates on prime nights. Get a better variety of acts on, particularly during the week - it's the same old faces again and again. Don't send free drinks tokens out - that'll encourage the same faces in - but consider combined drinks and food deals to boost trade in quieter times. Sort the toilets out once and for all - the sewage smell still lingers.
And sort the beer garden out in readiness for summer - that's their best chance. Sunshine will bring new faces. They stand a chance with their more inclusive feel, but reverting back to the customer-repelling two men and their mandolin/bagpipe combo stereotype approach would be a mistake.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Definitely agree with that - the big beer garden is a great asset and there aren't too many others around. A little bit of work to make it seem less like a car park with tables in and they'd do very well IMO.
dogmatique
merde alors
Dawn Penn! Blimey!
Aye, If they have acts of that quality (or even Ms Penn again) I'll be keeping my eye out! Shame I missed her.
