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Hillsborough Independent Panel findings and release of documents.

From p343:

On Tuesday 18 April, writing in the Liverpool Daily Post, John Williams noted that ‘the gatecrashers wreaked their fatal havoc’, their ‘uncontrolled fanaticism and mass hysteria ... literally squeezed the life out of men, women and children’.14 It was ‘yobbism at its most base’ as ‘Scouse killed Scouse for no better reason than 22 men were kicking a ball’.
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Is that the same John Williams who currently lectures on sociology at Leicester, and who was a go-to guy for journos wanting an academic quote on hooliganism (alongside Clifford Stott)?
 
Not read thread but heard via PM on R4 that 160 cops changed their notes. Surely this will lead to the biggest trial ever for conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and misconduct in a public office given these statements were used in evidence.
 
The Sun:

...Today the report revealed that the source for the false allegations was a Sheffield news agency reporting conversations with South Yorkshire Police and Irvine Patnick, the then MP for Sheffield Hallam.

Kelvin MacKenzie, who was the editor of The Sun at the time of the Hillsborough tragedy and who wrote the headline The Truth, today offered his “profuse apologies to the people of Liverpool for that headline”.

Mr MacKenzie added: “It has taken more than two decades, 400,000 documents and a two-year inquiry to discover to my horror that it would have far more accurate had I written the headline The Lies rather than The Truth. I published in good faith and I am sorry that it was so wrong.”

Tonight The Sun's Editor Dominic Mohan said: "Twenty-three years ago The Sun newspaper made a terrible mistake. We published an inaccurate and offensive story about the events at Hillsborough. We said it was the truth - it wasn't.

"The Hillsborough Independent Panel has now established what really happened that day. It's an appalling story and at the heart of it are the police's attempts to smear Liverpool fans.

"It's a version of events that 23 years ago The Sun went along with and for that we're deeply ashamed and profoundly sorry.

"We've co-operated fully with the Hillsborough Independent Panel and will publish reports of their findings in tomorrow's newspaper.

"We will also reflect our deep sense of shame."
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posts on local fora still saying ''lots of drunken fans were seen at the White Horse Pub'',

were there any, does it matter?
 
To say I feel mixed emotions today is a massive understatement. I'm amazed that so much has been admitted but I'm cautious that the devil may well still lie in the detail. While I'm elated that the panel has delivered such a crushing report, I'm furious that the dead and the bereaved have been vilified for so long. The verdict of accidental death must now be quashed and there must be prosecutions for perverting the course of justice. Guilty policemen happily enjoying their retirements must be made to account for their actions. And there still remains the question of just how high it went, who knew what right at the top.

I hope the families and friends of the 96 get a bit of comfort today. I hope this is the beginning of them getting some justice. This is a great day but a terribly sad one, too.

JFT96
 
he report published today lays no blame on those that perished and quite rightly so, I think we have all known that from the start. I was there on the day in the build up and gave evidence to the West Midlands police enquiry. I'm sure my statement is there within all the documents. Over an hour before kick off police on horseback tried to move a few large groups of Liverpool fans gathered on Leppings Lane corner towards the ground. Many of these turned round and went in the opposite direction

In those days of terracing and with capacities often ignored, it was customary and a badge of honour for fans of big clubs to try and get in without tickets, either bribing turnstile operators or turning up late in the hope of overwhelming those in control. We can only assume the police made a huge misjudgement on the basis of past experience, a knee jerk reaction in those days was to believe all football fans to be hooligans. This mindset, coupled with the poor design and state of the ground, meant crowd control was all about stopping trouble and not protecting safety

What happened in the aftermath with police evidence being doctored and the misinformation about timings of the deaths etc is nothing short of scandalous. Let's hope justice is served, in whatever form that takes and the families can have some sense of closure. As an honour to the 96 we must ensure this never happens again and all seater stadia go some way to his and will provide a lasting legacy to their memory.

Anybody who was involved in football violence in the 70's and 80's should sleep uneasy tonight. Hillsborough would not have happened if the fences weren't there in the first place which were only as a result of previous generations acting like animals __________________
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Post on local fora, with some very controversial points at the end...
 
It wasn't "previous generations acting like animals" that led to the Ilbrox disasters in 1902, with 25 dead and 515 injured and again in 1971, with 66 dead, as well as the Bradford City Stadium fire in 1985, killing 56, injuring at least 265, and clearly, as the HIP report states, neither in the events that led up to 96 people dying at Hillsborough.
 
eh, I am just posting what some 'locals' are saying, most are very angry about what happened and the relevations today..
 
NVP said:
Sitting here pretty fucking choked now tbh. Just about held it together as the news was coming through at work but it's got to me now.

23 years. 23 fucking years.
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if the british state always acted so swiftly we could have started to put bloody sunday behind us in 1995.
 
NVP said:
Sitting here pretty fucking choked now tbh. Just about held it together as the news was coming through at work but it's got to me now.

23 years. 23 fucking years.
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If anything good has come out of all of this it's that the truth actually can come out sometimes and those who voiced suspicions for all of this time have finally been vindicated.
 
19sixtysix said:
Not read thread but heard via PM on R4 that 160 cops changed their notes. Surely this will lead to the biggest trial ever for conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and misconduct in a public office given these statements were used in evidence.
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I understood that it was senior officers that changed the notes. Well, that was the impression I got anyway.
 
Today has been eye-opening for me. Not the findings of the investigation but so many of the comments I've read from people across the internet. I can't believe at that so many people still believed the official/Sun version of events. I thought that the fact there had been a police fuck up and subsequent cover up was common accepted knowledge.
 
Iguana said:
Today has been eye-opening for me. Not the findings of the investigation but so many of the comments I've read from people across the internet. I can't believe at that so many people still believed the official/Sun version of events. I thought that the fact there had been a police fuck up and subsequent cover up was common accepted knowledge.
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it was *here*
 
My Mrs just remarked how the Tienanmen Square Massacre happened at around the same time, and how she had thought herself lucky to live in a country where people could not die as a consequence of state's actions without those responsible being held to account. Twenty three years later it appears that the only difference between the UK and the brutal Chinese dictatorship was how the former is better at concealing its culpability. A truly terrifying thought.

It sickens me how it can be 'deny, deny, deny' for all those years, but that when it all comes out, people are falling over themselves to apologise.

And, as has already been observed here, this isn't justice, but the truth is a step in the direction of justice.

Massive respect to all those who never gave up.
 
Iguana said:
Today has been eye-opening for me. Not the findings of the investigation but so many of the comments I've read from people across the internet. I can't believe at that so many people still believed the official/Sun version of events. I thought that the fact there had been a police fuck up and subsequent cover up was common accepted knowledge.
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There are a lot people who hate and resent Liverpool and will happily believe anything bad about Liverpool and scousers.
 
dylanredefined said:
There are a lot people who hate and resent Liverpool and will happily believe anything bad about Liverpool and scousers.
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also, i hate Liverpool FC and Liverpool fans. I hate Liverpool the City. Awful people, awful place. IME, obv. But no-one deserves to be treated like that by the state and by the media and by other human beings. if a person can't see beyond football or regional loyalties to understand that this was a godawful miscarriage of justice then quite frankly they should be dropped into an active volcano.
 
bluestreak said:
also, i hate Liverpool FC and Liverpool fans. I hate Liverpool the City. Awful people, awful place. IME, obv. But no-one deserves to be treated like that by the state and by the media and by other human beings. if a person can't see beyond football or regional loyalties to understand that this was a godawful miscarriage of justice then quite frankly they should be dropped into an active volcano.
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Unfortunatly people are bastards:(:mad:
 
Iguana said:
Today has been eye-opening for me. Not the findings of the investigation but so many of the comments I've read from people across the internet. I can't believe at that so many people still believed the official/Sun version of events. I thought that the fact there had been a police fuck up and subsequent cover up was common accepted knowledge.
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It was on the left.
 
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