Herne Hill news, chitter chatter and gossip

[technical]

Yes, more chains. And more restaurants as that's what the market can take right now.

 

[Maharani]

Exactly the same thing is happening on Kentish Town high street. All of the independents have pretty much been priced out now. Sad.

 

[Winot]

How is it that the big chains can afford to pay more rent? Can they survive on a lower profit because other of their shops are more profitable, or is it that they pay less tax, or are they just more profitable (=more popular with customers) than the independents? Of is it a combination of these factors?

 

[teuchter]

I was wondering the same.

 

[quimcunx]

Not sure. Maybe because they are backed by big chains they have more to invest upfront/can suffer a loss for longer. Once they pay the higher rent other rents go up, pushing more independents out and reducing competition, leading eventually to more profit. Brand recognition has to be a big boon too.

 

[editor]

How is it that the big chains can afford to pay more rent? Can they survive on a lower profit because other of their shops are more profitable, or is it that they pay less tax, or are they just more profitable (=more popular with customers) than the independents? Of is it a combination of these factors?

I would have thought that their running overall costs would be considerably lower due to their ability to drive suppliers' prices right down to the knuckle thanks to economies of scale, and overall efficiency in operations. Chains are often very finely tuned organisations.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I would have thought that their running overall costs would be considerably lower due to their ability to drive suppliers' prices right down to the knuckle thanks to economies of scale, and overall efficiency in operations. Chains are often very finely tuned organisations.

This is it I think. Setup and finance costs are going to be much cheaper as well compared to a one-off restaurant - as I understand it a lot of independent places never really pay these off.

 

[teuchter]

So why doesn't same logic apply whilst rents are set lower?

 

[Winot]

This is it I think. Setup and finance costs are going to be much cheaper as well compared to a one-off restaurant - as I understand it a lot of independent places never really pay these off.

If that's the case, we are essentially asking for landlords to charge less rent or for customers to pay more in order for independent shops to survive.

 

[editor]

This is it I think. Setup and finance costs are going to be much cheaper as well compared to a one-off restaurant - as I understand it a lot of independent places never really pay these off.

Yep. And the independents can often survive reasonably well until the area has the misfortune of being declared the new trendy hotspot. Landlords, being landlords, quickly realise that they can line their pockets with even more cash, throwing age-old concepts like 'loyalty' out of the window, and hiking up the rents of long term independents to unaffordable levels. See: Network Rail/Brixton Arches for a prime example.

Now that Herne Hill has got its own theme park branch of the upmarket Shrub & Shutter cocktail bar it's only going to get worse. Gentrification, eh? So many new places to go to for "treats." So many long term businesses being hoofed out. So many rent rises.

 

[sleaterkinney]

If that's the case, we are essentially asking for landlords to charge less rent or for customers to pay more in order for independent shops to survive.

The big chains will always benefit from economies of scale. They can also make a loss in one shop to drive competitors out of business etc.

 

[editor]

The big chains will always benefit from economies of scale. They can also make a loss in one shop to drive competitors out of business etc.

And then there's the slippery tax tricks of the big chains to contend with too...

Starbucks' Tax Tricks are Killing Small Businesses

 

[T & P]

Signed as well. Network Rail really are being cunts of the highest order, on on a nationwide (or at least Lonson-wide) scale it seems.

 

[Rushy]

Signed as well. Network Rail really are being cunts of the highest order, on on a nationwide (or at least Lonson-wide) scale it seems.

The petition isn't against network rail, is it?.

Happily, several of the Herne Hill shops asked to vacate by network rail have relocated nearby. Bleu, Ye Olde Bakery, the green grocer. Two of those into other arches.

I think only one of the new units will be cafe / restaurant. I think they have committed to prefer independents though I'd imagine that includes small chains.

 

[snowy_again]

Yep. And the independents can often survive reasonably well until the area has the misfortune of being declared the new trendy hotspot. Landlords, being landlords, quickly realise that they can line their pockets with even more cash, throwing age-old concepts like 'loyalty' out of the window, and hiking up the rents of long term independents to unaffordable levels. See: Network Rail/Brixton Arches for a prime example.

Now that Herne Hill has got its own theme park branch of the upmarket Shrub & Shutter cocktail bar it's only going to get worse. Gentrification, eh? So many new places to go to for "treats." So many long term businesses being hoofed out. So many rent rises.

This is a poor interpretation of what's gone on in HH - but might the Brixton experience.

 

[editor]

This is a poor interpretation of what's gone on in HH - but might the Brixton experience.

How is this any different from what has happened in the Brixton arches? Some may be able to afford to relocate but who's going to take their place?

Traders facing closure in Herne Hill because of redevelopment plans led by Network Rail claim the changes will "rip out the heart" of the community.

Small business owners who have been trading around the railway station in south London for decades have said the proposals will force them to move out due to significant rent hikes.

They believe most of the six units earmarked for development in Railton Road will become chain restaurants and cafés as the rents are tripled.

Refurbishment work on the units, which contractors estimate will take 12 months, is due to start this summer.

Herne Hill traders claim Network Rail development will 'rip out heart

 

[teuchter]

There's the usual confusion/conflation between the chain vs independent issue and the upmarket vs affordable issue.

What's the priority - to keep affordable shops in HH or to keep independent shops in HH?

Many of the long-standing independent businesses in HH are relatively upmarket (to some extent in contrast to the situation in Brixton).

 

[teuchter]

I noted something in the wording of the petition aimed at Dulwich Estate - they say they don't want a "Machigh st".

Is McDonalds generally associated with supplying treats to newly arrived gentrifiers?

 

[WNW]

How is it that the big chains can afford to pay more rent? Can they survive on a lower profit because other of their shops are more profitable, or is it that they pay less tax, or are they just more profitable (=more popular with customers) than the independents? Of is it a combination of these factors?

It's not that they pay more rent (in fact they often pay less). Landlords prefer chains over independents because there is a much lower chance that a big chain will fail to pay its rent or will go bust (meaning that the landlord has to find a new tenant) or leave the property in disrepair. For the owner of a retail property, it's all about the security of the income stream.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

It's not that they pay more rent (in fact they often pay less). Landlords prefer chains over independents because there is a much lower chance that a big chain will fail to pay its rent or will go bust (meaning that the landlord has to find a new tenant) or leave the property in disrepair. For the owner of a retail property, it's all about the security of the income stream.

That sounds plausible. Except that in a lot of these cases the businesses leaving have been paying the rent for years, and by all accounts rent is going up by 70%. So it might be a factor but it's not the main one as far as I can see.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Hopefully the fact that we're not on a tube line and not that vibrant or edgy means that we won't become a destination like Brixton.

 

[Manter]

-5 in Calais last night and there is a real risk of hypothermia or even death. Children a pillows are frozen solid and there are still refugees without socks. If you have any money to spare at all please please consider buying something off www.leisurefayre.com (click on the help refugees banner on the main page and it will take you to a page of desperately needed things)

It will be delivered free straight to the warehouse and is a wholesaler so really cheap. A blanket is £3.50 and might save someone's life.

I know this isn't Herne Hill specific but there is a huge group from Brixton, Tulse Hill, Herne Hill and Dulwich that go out regularly and we'd be so grateful for the support.

 

[quimcunx]

Using Leisure fayre is a great way to donate to the refugees in Calais. Because (despite Manter's incredulity ) the relief effort is a largely anarchist pursuit there are no/few charities one can simply donate to in order to help the relief effort. Buying something from Leisurefayre to be delivered to the warehouse is a really simple, quick and direct way to help refugees.

 

[editor]

Hopefully the fact that we're not on a tube line and not that vibrant or edgy means that we won't become a destination like Brixton.

Tell that to Peckham Rye. You've already got the hoity toity hipster cocktail bar and Herne Hill was featured in this week's Time Out, so good luck holding back the vibrancy.

Living in Peckham Rye: the lowdown on hipster central

 

[Manter]

Using Leisure fayre is a great way to donate to the refugees in Calais. Because (despite Manter's incredulity ) the relief effort is a largely anarchist pursuit there are no/few charities one can simply donate to in order to help the relief effort. Buying something from Leisurefayre to be delivered to the warehouse is a really simple, quick and direct way to help refugees.

More fury than incredulity tbh. The fact people are living like that in a rich first world country mere miles from London makes me so angry I can barely speak. Such an easy problem to solve, and utterly utterly unnecessary.

 

[goldengraham]

-5 in Calais last night and there is a real risk of hypothermia or even death. Children a pillows are frozen solid and there are still refugees without socks. If you have any money to spare at all please please consider buying something off www.leisurefayre.com (click on the help refugees banner on the main page and it will take you to a page of desperately needed things)

It will be delivered free straight to the warehouse and is a wholesaler so really cheap. A blanket is £3.50 and might save someone's life.

I know this isn't Herne Hill specific but there is a huge group from Brixton, Tulse Hill, Herne Hill and Dulwich that go out regularly and we'd be so grateful for the support.

Thanks for sharing this

 

[friendofdorothy]

Do any of you recall what HH was like 20 years ago? - more than half the units were empty and shops were closing. Tumble weed down down the street sort of place, no chain would have relocated here. There was an offy that was part of a chain - a chain that went bust. There were a few places like Pullens, the Cafe Prov, the Dance shop and Walters that survived to see the area change around them.

If the area now has more trade, more shops, more life - it is largely due to the hard work of the independant traders we have. No wonder chains want muscle in on the back of others hard work now. With there tax avoiding, minimum wage paying ethos they can afford bigger rents. There are small traders still trying to recover from the flood - what a kick in the teeth to increase their rent. Not sure how many units are owned by Dulwich estates, but I think they are just being plain greedy.

I would like to question why unaccountable, property owning, private school owning organisation, like Dulwich Estates should even be charities in this century.

 

[friendofdorothy]

There's the usual confusion/conflation between the chain vs independent issue and the upmarket vs affordable issue.

What's the priority - to keep affordable shops in HH or to keep independent shops in HH?

Many of the long-standing independent businesses in HH are relatively upmarket (to some extent in contrast to the situation in Brixton).

Please note chain doesn't necessarily mean affordable. The Sainsburys Local has to be one of the most expensive shops around. The tiny Londis shop opposite generally offers better value.

Yes a lot of the shops are more 'upmarket' now - but it still feels local and quirky. And at least you can still buy ordinary stuff there like a light bulb or a bucket.

 

[Fingers]

Do any of you recall what HH was like 20 years ago? - more than half the units were empty and shops were closing. Tumble weed down down the street sort of place, no chain would have relocated here. There was an offy that was part of a chain - a chain that went bust. There were a few places like Pullens, the Cafe Prov, the Dance shop and Walters that survived to see the area change around them.

If the area now has more trade, more shops, more life - it is largely due to the hard work of the independant traders we have. No wonder chains want muscle in on the back of others hard work now. With there tax avoiding, minimum wage paying ethos they can afford bigger rents. There are small traders still trying to recover from the flood - what a kick in the teeth to increase their rent. Not sure how many units are owned by Dulwich estates, but I think they are just being plain greedy.

I would like to question why unaccountable, property owning, private school owning organisation, like Dulwich Estates should even be charities in this century.

^this

 

[friendofdorothy]

Now that Herne Hill has got its own theme park branch of the upmarket Shrub & Shutter cocktail bar it's only going to get worse. Gentrification, eh? So many new places to go to for "treats." So many long term businesses being hoofed out. So many rent rises.

I think you are confusing Herne Hill with Brixton. Yes I'm against losing all our established businesses, and its well known that Dulwich Estates have been a pain in the area forever. But having a new cocktail bar won't make my local area worse.

Besides I'd quite like a cocktail - provided I don't have to drag my self down to Brixton Village. Cocktails are not new to Herne Hillbillies. We've had happy hours in Pullens for years and then in The Poet for a while (used to be next to Commercial)

I'd love a gin sling, please.