Help me out, o literary types

[Orang Utan]

I am looking for decent extracts that reflect issues/themes in Hamlet.
They can be literary classics, but they have to be readable for an eleven year old, so examples from kids' books are also welcome.

So...first is recommendations for material that depicts life in Elizabethan times. I've got the non-fiction pretty much covered and may be using Bill Bryson's book on Shakey, but does anyone know any good evocative historical novels set in Elizabethan times?

Second is stories that feature ghosts, especially reproachful ones. Christmas Carol is an obvious and there's even a retelling by a hot YA author that I might use, but anything else? I don't read ghost stories much - does anyone know any good ghost stories for kids and young adults?

Third is on the theme of revenge. The Count Of Monte Cristo is the obvious one, but anyone know any examples of revenge stories that aren't old Jacobean plays or French novels?

Fourth, can anyone think of any great stories in which the protagonist faces a moral dilemma? Fiction or non fiction. There must be plenty of short stories in which this happens. I was thinking of Roald Dahl's short stories maybe, or even Ray Bradbury. Raymond Carver must have a few too, and a story called The Lumber Room by Saki has been mentioned, but your suggestions are also gratefully welcomed and considered. Also in non-fiction/autobiography, there is Joe Simpson's Touching The Void, but any more real life moral dilemmas would also be gratefully considered.

Thanks in advance! I've got quite a few in my head already but would like to know if I'm missing out anything glaringly obvious, or something I am totally ignorant of.

 

[bi0boy]

We read The Ghost of Thomas Kempe in school which seems to cover at least one of your themes, possibly all of them but it was a long time ago.

 

[trabuquera]

Brother Dusty-Feet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Rosemary Sutcliff novel set in the Elizabethan era - is fun, and I still remember it fondly from reading it at somewhere between ages 9 and 11, tho I haven't read it since.

 

[Rebelda]

Susan Cooper's King of Shadows for your first request. Although it will break your heart.

How about The Turn of the Screw for ghosts. Sort of.

I dunno about modern revenge, but I do know some batshit mental plays that they'd love. Let me think

 

[Cid]

MR James for ghost stories. Also Edgar Allan poe, although they're not quite ghost stories. Reproachfulness aplenty in both.

 

[DotCommunist]

Woman in Black, Susan Hill. 1983. Ghosts. I remember it being a bit scary. Novella length

 

[Cid]

Woman in Black, Susan Hill. 1983. Ghosts. I remember it being a bit scary. Novella length

Orang Utan if you can get funding to see the play of Woman in Black, do it. Will scare the shit out of them.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

So...first is recommendations for material that depicts life in Elizabethan times. I've got the non-fiction pretty much covered and may be using Bill Bryson's book on Shakey, but does anyone know any good evocative historical novels set in Elizabethan times?

Geoffrey Trease's Cue for Treason? Both Liz I and Will S have walk-on parts. And it's historically plausible.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

The Stieg Larsson novels are about revenge, and people seem to like them, although I don't know why. You could always let the nippers watch Kill Bill.

 

[DotCommunist]

for moral dilemma the two ones that spring to mind are Edmund selling out the other children for some of that crack-like Turkish Delight

And Charlie from CATCF stealing the everlasting gobstopper.

 

[Cid]

The Stieg Larsson novels are about revenge, and people seem to like them, although I don't know why. You could always let the nippers watch Kill Bill.

I'd go for Park Chan-Wook's Vengeance trilogy.

 

[DotCommunist]

The Stieg Larsson novels are about revenge, and people seem to like them, although I don't know why. You could always let the nippers watch Kill Bill.

struggling for Revenge reccs here, all I can think of is ultraviolent liam neesonesque murder sprees

 

[Maurice Picarda]

for moral dilemma the two ones that spring to mind are Edmund selling out the other children for some of that crack-like Turkish Delight

And Charlie from CATCF stealing the everlasting gobstopper.

The first is not a moral dilemma; Edmund may have made a poor moral choice but he didn't agonise over it. The second is anticanonical. It doesn't happen in the book, and in the 1960s film I think it's fizzy lifting liquid that is filched by Bucket. Only industrial spies steal the gobstoppers.

 

[Cid]

struggling for Revenge reccs here, all I can think of is ultraviolent liam neesonesque murder sprees

Well there's Bester's Tiger Tiger, but the rape scene is a bit unfortunate.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Aha! Ian McEwan's The Children Act. Manageably short, and entirely centred on a moral dilemma concerning the ability of children to give meaningful consent, so should resonate with the nippers.

 

[spanglechick]

Is the list of themes fixed? The big, famous soliloquy is about suicide, and while "Existential Dilemmas" might be a bit of a hard sell to younger kids, it also feeds into the huge theme of "madness and sanity". The other big theme that could yield interesting results is "the nature/finality of death" - we have ghosts, we have memories of Yorick while his bones are being dug up, we have a huge chunk of the "to be or not to be" speech...

IME, kids like a gritty, dark theme. It captures their imagination.

 

[mrsfran]

Re: Hamlet - it's not a book but... The Lion King. Similarities (And Differences) Between The Lion King and Hamlet

 

[Voley]

Fourth, can anyone think of any great stories in which the protagonist faces a moral dilemma? Fiction or non fiction. There must be plenty of short stories in which this happens. I was thinking of Roald Dahl's short stories maybe

Danny The Champion Of The World is the one that sprung to mind. Finding out his Dad's a poacher being the main dilemma but another good one was when he talked his Dad out of battering the teacher that gave him the cane. I loved that book when I was a kid. Bit young for your age group though maybe? Dunno, been a while since I read it.

 

[Orang Utan]

Thanks all, some great suggestions.

Rebelda thanks for the Susan Cooper suggestion. We have a copy and it seems ideal.

 

[Rebelda]

Thanks all, some great suggestions.

Rebelda thanks for the Susan Cooper suggestion. We have a copy and it seems ideal.

Thank you for reminding me of it I loved that book - read it over and over again when I was 13, after being introduced to it by a wonderful English teacher. I still remember her description of Elizabethan England, when the protagonist goes back in time, especially the smell.

Spoiler: Plot stuff

The end is so sad. But the fact that the universe had conspired to make impossible things happen, to make sure that Shakespeare didn't die. Oh man <3

 

[laptop]

Ghostish: Dickens C, "The Signal-man", in Mugby Junction, Richard Clay & Sons: London, 1866.

 

[Rebelda]

Oh oh, moral dilemma: how about the end of the first book of the Northern Lights trilogy. The bit with Lara's mate Will, how she brought him to her dad and he killed him. Crossing the bridge and all that. I suppose it's kind of moral dilemma with hindsight though.

Re. revenge - does it have to be modern? Couldn't you look at revenge tragedy - all the rules Aristotle wrote (not that hard to read, you can just pull out the headlines tbh) and the strange formulaic style of Greek theatre. Or the *very short I promise* Francis Bacon piece On Revenge. 'Revenge is a kind of wild justice; which the more man's nature runs to, the more ought law to weed it out'. Don't google for it though, I just did and the stuff it brings up is wrong. I have it and can send it you?

The plays I was thinking of (The Spanish Tragedy and The Revengers Tragedy) are brilliant, and bonkers, but full of rape and incest and seriously gruesome violence so maybe not appropriate

 

[Orang Utan]

Oh oh, moral dilemma: how about the end of the first book of the Northern Lights trilogy. The bit with Lara's mate Will, how she brought him to her dad and he killed him. Crossing the bridge and all that. I suppose it's kind of moral dilemma with hindsight though.

Re. revenge - does it have to be modern? Couldn't you look at revenge tragedy - all the rules Aristotle wrote (not that hard to read, you can just pull out the headlines tbh) and the strange formulaic style of Greek theatre. Or the *very short I promise* Francis Bacon piece On Revenge. 'Revenge is a kind of wild justice; which the more man's nature runs to, the more ought law to weed it out'. Don't google for it though, I just did and the stuff it brings up is wrong. I have it and can send it you?

The plays I was thinking of (The Spanish Tragedy and The Revengers Tragedy) are brilliant, and bonkers, but full of rape and incest and seriously gruesome violence so maybe not appropriate

actually both of those were suggested by a senior colleague as they wanted some classic material too.
Northern Lights might be a goer too! Cheers, you should do my job!

 

[Rebelda]

actually both of those were suggested by a senior colleague as they wanted some classic material too.
Northern Lights might be a goer too! Cheers, you should do my job!

I really wish I'd been taught some classics at school. It was a serious disadvantage at Birkbeck.

Ha! I wouldn't work in a school at the moment (((you lot)))

 

[Orang Utan]

Aha! Ian McEwan's The Children Act. Manageably short, and entirely centred on a moral dilemma concerning the ability of children to give meaningful consent, so should resonate with the nippers.

The Stieg Larsson novels are about revenge, and people seem to like them, although I don't know why. You could always let the nippers watch Kill Bill.

Well there's Bester's Tiger Tiger, but the rape scene is a bit unfortunate.

Aha! Ian McEwan's The Children Act. Manageably short, and entirely centred on a moral dilemma concerning the ability of children to give meaningful consent, so should resonate with the nippers.

Don't forget I said they needed to be suitable for 11 year olds!

 

[scifisam]

There's a YA book about a young Will Shakespeare getting mixed up with pirates. It's not too bad for historical accuracy and it's a really easy read.