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has there ever been a lamer labour leader than ed miliband?

butchersapron said:
Ramsey Macdonald, James Callaghan,Neil Kinnock,Hugh Gaitskill, Harriet Harman - he's no better or worse than any of these. Since his election his party have done very well in the polls for over a year now. The Blairite hard right wing of the party have launched an open attack on him via their journo contacts over the last month - don't buy their hype.
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Not sure I agree entirely with this. Whilst I agree that the Labour right are attacking him, and overestimating current Labour weaknesses, there is some truth in the attacks. Whilst Labour have been ahead in the polls, their lead is IMO not as great as you would expect given rates of unemployment, cuts and general economic woe that the country is experiencing under the Tories. Also important is the way that polls reflect much more personal approval for Cameron then for Miliband. I get the impression Labour are doing allright despite Miliband rather then because of him.
 
Ed Milliband has probably the poorest image of any Labour leader since Michael Foot. Whatever he does he won't appeal to voters. Image appears to be all nowadays which is why our prime minister is more like a PR man.
 
It's not just that he is a piss poor public speaker and it's not that he looks like a total tosser either, it's because he appears to lack any integrity. He gives the impression of being willing to say and do anything for the sake of expediency and a few votes. Just what we need, another unprincipled self-serving cunt.
 
killer b said:
i don't think he's been a bad leader of the labour party at all - he's a poor public speaker, but most of his policy decisions and the way he's dealt with unfolding events has shown a keen political mind, and generally popular with the voting public.

he's an awful leader for the leftwing party some of you clearly imagine the labour party is, mind.
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Sounds like you think the Labour party ought to be a centre-right party. If I'm right about that, don't you think people ought to have a genuine choice, instead of three neoliberal parties to vote for as we have right now?
 
It's not shaping up well for Blue Ed. I think he sounds somewhat too like Blair (actual voice, not what he says).

Of the 3 larger parties only the tories do what they say on the tin and have a clear brand.

But is EM the "lamest"? I think he has a long way to go to outdo "Clunk" Brown. And which bunch of sorry right wing war criminals and apologists put him in unopposed, thinking him supremely qualified to be PM without question? The entire Labour Party. If EM is too right wing, wolly and ineffectual he is well qualified to front them.
 
I think Ed Milliband has a left complex. He had the help of the unions and was nicknamed red Ed. Now he is trying to prove that he is not a leftie whether it be to himself or to others and in doing so is abandoning the working class and the left that go him where he is.
 
Meltingpot said:
Sounds like you think the Labour party ought to be a centre-right party. If I'm right about that, don't you think people ought to have a genuine choice, instead of three neoliberal parties to vote for as we have right now?
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It's not about what they ought to be, it's about what they are.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
It's not shaping up well for Blue Ed. I think he sounds somewhat too like Blair (actual voice, not what he says).

Of the 3 larger parties only the tories do what they say on the tin and have a clear brand.

But is EM the "lamest"? I think he has a long way to go to outdo "Clunk" Brown. And which bunch of sorry right wing war criminals and apologists put him in unopposed, thinking him supremely qualified to be PM without question? The entire Labour Party. If EM is too right wing, wolly and ineffectual he is well qualified to front them.
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The entire labour party membership did not choose not to oppose Brown as Labour leader - they didn't get the chance to vote for or against him as the MPs didn't nominate any other suitably qualified candidates.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
It's not shaping up well for Blue Ed. I think he sounds somewhat too like Blair (actual voice, not what he says).

Of the 3 larger parties only the tories do what they say on the tin and have a clear brand.

But is EM the "lamest"? I think he has a long way to go to outdo "Clunk" Brown. And which bunch of sorry right wing war criminals and apologists put him in unopposed, thinking him supremely qualified to be PM without question? The entire Labour Party. If EM is too right wing, wolly and ineffectual he is well qualified to front them.
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Bollocks - Labour are just as honest/dishonest as the Tories - the Lib Dems arguably lie a bit more but even that difference is negligible.
 
purenarcotic said:
'And he will say that people should get state handouts only if they have paid their taxes first.


How can he make such a retarded statement. So what happens to kids who have just left school? I suppose they're supposed to just sit on the streets and beg for their dinner.​

For fuck's sake.​
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I agree with the sentiment, but can you avoid using the bit in bold please? It's quite offensive.
 
Meltingpot said:
It hasn't always been like that though. We had far more of a choice in 1983 than we have now.
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1) I'm not sure why that's relevant.

2) Thanks for the history lesson. I know there are many on here who disagree but I believe there was a qualitative change in the Labour party - it had begun even before 1983 but became irreversible in the early to mid nineties. If you want left wing social democracy Labour is not the party for you, arguably it never was but I can certainly see why people thought so in years gone by - nowadays anyone who thinks Labour can be "won back" is an idiot.
 
butchersapron said:
But what are you suggesting? That Labour be required to have a 'left-wing' leader?
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Not necessarily "left" within the Labour party, but if they're not left of the Lib Dem and Tory parties I can't see what the point of them is. "Blue Labour" doesn't look to me any different from the Orange Book Lib Dems (or maybe someone will tell me how it is?).
 
Meltingpot said:
Not necessarily "left" within the Labour party, but if they're not left of the Lib Dem and Tory parties I can't see what the point of them is. "Blue Labour" doesn't look to me any different from the Orange Book Lib Dems (or maybe someone will tell me how it is?).
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Have you read any of Glasman's Blue Labour stuff? I'm not a fan but I fail to see how anyone who's read it would liken it to the Orange Book.
 
Meltingpot said:
Must say I haven't, no, I just go on what I've seen in the papers.
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In a weird way it's almost the opposite of the Orange Book. Whereas the Orange Book advocates extreme neoliberalism and social libertarianism, Blue Labour advocates a rejection of neoliberal economics in favour some weird form of guild socialism and social conservatism.
 
SpineyNorman said:
In a weird way it's almost the opposite of the Orange Book. Whereas the Orange Book advocates extreme neoliberalism and social libertarianism, Blue Labour advocates a rejection of neoliberal economics in favour some weird form of guild socialism and social conservatism.
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OK, I defer to your evidently greater knowledge here.
 
SaskiaJayne said:
Ed Milliband has probably the poorest image of any Labour leader since Michael Foot. Whatever he does he won't appeal to voters. Image appears to be all nowadays which is why our prime minister is more like a PR man.
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Whilst the game has always involved showmanship, Blair took it to another level, it's never going to go back down to personality or policy ever again.
 
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