Haiti update

[army_of_one]

Their attitude to Haiti stems from its 19th century resentments...or would you doubt that? People fleeing Cuba are always given sanctuary, while Haitians are always sent back.

What resentment though? True enough, the US did join in the blockade Haiti along with each and every other caribbean power of the day surrounding the island.

Buuuuuut, not a whole lot of invovlement after that in the 19th century.

Many of Haiti's problems started after Dessalines was murdered by his own politcal rivals in 1806.

 

[nino_savatte]

What resentment though? True enough, the US did join in the blockade Haiti along with each and every other caribbean power of the day surrounding the island.

Buuuuuut, not a whole lot of invovlement after that in the 19th century.

Many of Haiti's problems started after Dessalines was murdered by his own politcal rivals in 1806.

The US didn't exactly enjoy the the thought of having a state on its doorstep that was founded/peopled by former slaves. It was also thought that Haiti would serve as an inspiration for slave revolts in the US. Hait was constantly being undermined by the US and in 1915 it was occupied.

 

[nino_savatte]

I think its more to do with Cuba fleeing evil communism
haiti anti commies and now a liberal democracy or some such rubbish

Partly correct but Haitians fleeing the oppression under the Duvaliers were always sent back...or perhaps you saw Papa and Baby Doc as champions of democracy?

 

[likesfish]

but papa and baby were fighting the evils of communism so if you tried to run you must have been a commie

 

[nino_savatte]

but papa and baby were fighting the evils of communism so if you tried to run you must have been a commie

No, they were busy lining their own pockets and subjecting their citizens to a regime of terror. I don't suppose you've ever heard of the Ton Ton Macoutes.

Papa Doc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/François_Duvalier
Baby Doc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Duvalier
Ton Ton Macoute
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton_Ton_Macoute

Try doing some reading for a change.

 

[nino_savatte]

Interesting stuff from Global Security.com
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/navassa-island.htm

Chomsky on Haiti

Between 1849 and 1913, US Navy ships entered Haitian waters 24 times to "protect American lives and property." Haiti's independence was scarcely given even "token recognition," Schmidt observes in his standard history, and there was little consideration for the rights of its people. They are "an inferior people," unable "to maintain the degree of civilization left them by the French or to develop any capacity of self government entitling them to international respect and confidence," Assistant Secretary of State William Phillips wrote, recommending the policy of invasion and US military government that President Woodrow Wilson soon adopted. Few words need be wasted on the civilization left to 90 percent of the population by the French, who, as an ex-slave related, "hung up men with heads downward, drowned them in sacks, crucified them on planks, buried them alive, crushed them in mortars..., forced them to eat shit, ... cast them alive to be devoured by worms, or onto anthills, or lashed them to stakes in the swamp to be devoured by mosquitos, ...threw them into boiling cauldrons of cane syrup" -- when not "flaying them with the lash" to extract the wealth that helped give France its entry ticket to the rich men's club.

http://cyberspacei.com/jesusi/authors/chomsky/year/y501_008.htm

 

[nino_savatte]

More here

The United States backed France in ordering Haiti to pay 150 million francs in gold to compensate for the costs of the war it won. In return, Haiti would supposedly be granted international recognition. Repayment locked Haiti into the role of a debtor nation –where it remains today.

Beginning in 1850, U.S. warships remained almost a constant in Haitian waters for 60 years. According to historians, this pattern of gunboat diplomacy led to the first U.S. occupation of Haiti, which began in 1915 and lasted 19 years.

The U.S. invasion and occupation was sparked by the fall of the Haitian president at the time. A pro-government general ordered the execution of 163 political prisoners and caused a popular uprising against the landed elite.

The United States declared the Haitian people unfit to rule themselves. Americans seized land and created an army and police force, specialists in preventing revolt and protecting American capital.
http://soc.hfac.uh.edu/artman/publish/article_94.shtml

The anti-Haitian myths put out by the US in the 19th century persist to this day. It was because of the last occupation 1915 - 36, that Papa Doc came to power. The US occupation created ethnic divisions (a peculiarly American obession one could argue) that would lead to the creation of a political force led by Duvalier.

Supported by US money, Papa Doc ushered in a reign of terror

Farmer says, “During his first four –and bloodiest—years in power, Papa Doc received $40 million from Washington, much of it in the form of outright gifts. The U.S. even went so far as to send Marines to protect this regime from any popular movement that might threaten its rule.”

None of this had anything to do with communism, socialism or any other kind of "ism".

 

[army_of_one]

http://www.bartleby.com/67/2315.html

http://modern-us-history.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_american_occupation_of_haiti

Okay I've had my chance to study up and I find my position totally fucked. No, scratch that, proper fucked.

I must admit that you have a point nino. A point regarding Haiti and the US at least.

However, my mistake has been one of ignorance rather than denial or malice. My schooling never covered the subject in depth and my interest had never broached the subject before.

Question now is how can Haiti overcome this past?

What do you see or want to see for Haiti's future?

Near term? Long term?

 

[nino_savatte]

http://www.bartleby.com/67/2315.html

http://modern-us-history.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_american_occupation_of_haiti

Okay I've had my chance to study up and I find my position totally fucked. No, scratch that, proper fucked.

I must admit that you have a point nino. A point regarding Haiti and the US at least.

However, my mistake has been one of ignorance rather than denial or malice. My schooling never covered the subject in depth and my interest had never broached the subject before.

Question now is how can Haiti overcome this past?

What do you see or want to see for Haiti's future?

Near term? Long term?

That's okay, they weren't forthcoming about Haiti at my (dependent) schools either.

Haiti is in a mess, that's for sure. I think it would be a start if Haitians were allowed to determine their own future without political and economic interference from other countries (principally The US, Canada and France). Having said that, they need help to create democratic institutions that aren't reliant on the absolute compliance of the population through fear.

I think education is the key here. IIRC, literacy rates are pretty poor in Haiti; some of the poorest in the western hemisphere. The power of the gangs also has to be broken.