Griffin and BNP strategy

[audiotech]

but MC as a socialist we can not then stand by as the bosses import people on low wages to do these jobs?????

the principled stance must be that these jobs are made attractive in all ways surely????

Organise for better pay and conditions. More socialist than urging for more controls.

 

[audiotech]

Yet some people still refuse to accept this is the case. They much prefer to hide their heads in the sand and shout out racist.
The BNP are the people who can profit from that stupidity.

The BNP profit because a few middle class students lose out on fruit picking. I doubt it.

 

[becky p]

The BNP profit because a few middle class students lose out on fruit picking. I doubt it.

Not my point at all. The BNP will benefit though from people who suggest that anybody who disagrees with them on migration is " as bad as the BNP"
It appears that you and nino want to all you can to push people towards the BNP.

 

[audiotech]

The BNP are the people who can profit from that stupidity.

Speaking of the BNP and stupidity, Griffin's Mrs told the Mail on Sunday in 2005, that her husband had never "had a proper job".

 

[becky p]

Speaking of the BNP and stupidity, Griffin's Mrs told the Mail on Sunday in 2005, that her husband had never "had a proper job".

That might explain why a poster called nino savatte spends so much time on here.

 

[audiotech]

Not my point at all. The BNP will benefit though from people who suggest that anybody who disagrees with them on migration is " as bad as the BNP"
It appears that you and nino want to all you can to push people towards the BNP.

What is your point?

Now, that quote? Who posted it and where is it?

Are you being pushed that way Becky?

 

[audiotech]

That might explain why a poster called nino savatte spends so much time on here.

Really? Has nino_savette ever said he's never "had a proper job" then?

 

[becky p]

What is your point?

Now, that quote? Who posted it and where is it?

Are you being pushed that way Becky?

My point is that if people keep insisting that people who have concerns over millions of people migrating to the UK are all racist,then they are doing the BNPs work for them.

 

[becky p]

Really? Has nino_savette ever said he's never "had a proper job" then?

Can you really imagine him in a Job?

 

[audiotech]

My point is that if people keep insisting that people who have concerns over millions of people migrating to the UK are all racist,then they are doing the BNPs work for them.

Nobody has said that though have they?

 

[audiotech]

Can you really imagine him in a Job?

Why not, nino_savette is clearly not stupid like some I could mention and what makes you so special to employers anyway?

 

[nino_savatte]

What is your point?

Now, that quote? Who posted it and where is it?

Are you being pushed that way Becky?

She doesn't have a point, she never does. She cannot see how certain words and phrases are used by parties like the BNP. She also has a hard time understanding how her ideas on immigration contribute directly to attacks on immigrants.

She is another one of the crew who gets defensive about her cherished ideas on immigration. Trouble is, she doesn't have any other thoughts on this issue apart from spitting out clichés like, "This is a crowded island".

 

[nino_savatte]

Why not, nino_savette is clearly not stupid like some I could mention and what makes you so special to employers anyway?

This is her problem: she presumes too much and she presumes that I do no work. How she arrived at this conclusion is anyone's guess. One would imagine that she thinks it's a good 'insult' or 'putdown'.

 

[becky p]

She doesn't have a point, she never does. She cannot see how certain words and phrases are used by parties like the BNP. She also has a hard time understanding how her ideas on immigration contribute directly to attacks on immigrants.

She is another one of the crew who gets defensive about her cherished ideas on immigration. Trouble is, she doesn't have any other thoughts on this issue apart from spitting out clichés like, "This is a crowded island".

So my ideas contribute directly to attacks on immigrants.

It is you who has the fixed ideas on immigration.You who has difficulty understanding that other people are entitled to different views on the subject.
You who seems intent on pushing more people towards the BNP.

And where have i said the UK is a crowded island? Parts of it are crowded,but large parts are not.

How many different interpreters are now required by schools,hospitals and the police service?
Who do you think should pick up the cost?

Margaret Hodge, the Labour MP for Barking has come out and said that many people in her constituency are really concerned by this issue.
Concerned that recent migrants get preference in social housing.
What would you and people like you say to them?

 

[Peet]

I don't think the BNP needs a strategy other than remain a right wing party. If you're right of centre they're about the only thing on the menu.

 

[niclas]

At the time Griffin's arrival in the town was not popular, and the riots were in 2003 - nearly four years ago. They have built up a base in the time since the riots.

Oddly enough people I spoke to in Wrexham when I went there in 2005 were delighted by the arrests that occured in the distrubances - the flow of hard drugs into the town had been greatly reduced by those arrests and subsequent jailings.

I live in Wrexham and the vote was nothing to do with the Caia Park riots, which started between Iraqi Kurd refugees on the estate and locals and then (on the second night) became a free-for-all between every scally in town and the police.
The BNP has traded big time on the big Polish community that's moved here in the past 3-4 years.
Wxm has also gone from being a 98% white, solidly working-class town 10-15 yrs ago to being a fairly multicultural town with a huge Polish and Portuguese presence. The buy-to-let landlords have packed in migrant workers so affordable housing has become scarce.
It's also become more middle-class as the Chester set move in for the cheaper housing, pricing locals out.
The BNP barely exists on the ground here but the 9% was a protest vote against a shite Labour Party and the failure of the other parties to engage with the local working class.

 

[Peet]

I live in Wrexham and the vote was nothing to do with the Caia Park riots, which started between Iraqi Kurd refugees on the estate and locals and then (on the second night) became a free-for-all between every scally in town and the police.
The BNP has traded big time on the big Polish community that's moved here in the past 3-4 years.
Wxm has also gone from being a 98% white, solidly working-class town 10-15 yrs ago to being a fairly multicultural town with a huge Polish and Portuguese presence. The buy-to-let landlords have packed in migrant workers so affordable housing has become scarce.
It's also become more middle-class as the Chester set move in for the cheaper housing, pricing locals out.
The BNP barely exists on the ground here but the 9% was a protest vote against a shite Labour Party and the failure of the other parties to engage with the local working class.

So what you're saying is that immigration brings trouble and the locals don't want it.

 

[Groucho]

...

Margaret Hodge, the Labour MP for Barking has come out and said that many people in her constituency are really concerned by this issue.
Concerned that recent migrants get preference in social housing.
...

But recent migrants do NOT get preference in social housing. Legal migrants are assessed on a par with everyone else.

Hodge went a bit further than even you have today in accepting parts of the BNP agenda. She stated today that migrants to Britain should not be treated equally with British citizens as regards social housing, but should be treated as second class citizens. When will people - and politicians especially - understand that accepting parts of the BNP argument does not weaken but strengthen the BNP?

 

[The Black Hand]

I live in Wrexham and the vote was nothing to do with the Caia Park riots, which started between Iraqi Kurd refugees on the estate and locals and then (on the second night) became a free-for-all between every scally in town and the police.
The BNP has traded big time on the big Polish community that's moved here in the past 3-4 years.
Wxm has also gone from being a 98% white, solidly working-class town 10-15 yrs ago to being a fairly multicultural town with a huge Polish and Portuguese presence. The buy-to-let landlords have packed in migrant workers so affordable housing has become scarce.
It's also become more middle-class as the Chester set move in for the cheaper housing, pricing locals out.
The BNP barely exists on the ground here but the 9% was a protest vote against a shite Labour Party and the failure of the other parties to engage with the local working class.

Nice post.

 

[becky p]

But recent migrants do NOT get preference in social housing. Legal migrants are assessed on a par with everyone else.

Hodge went a bit further than even you have today in accepting parts of the BNP agenda. She stated today that migrants to Britain should not be treated equally with British citizens as regards social housing, but should be treated as second class citizens. When will people - and politicians especially - understand that accepting parts of the BNP argument does not weaken but strengthen the BNP?

Do you think that anybody from any other country should be entitled to all the benefits open to people in this country?
It might sound good. But how would that work in practice?
Should we be paying pensions for people who have never worked in the UK. Wouldnt that mean the level of basic pension being cut?
Do you think its a good idea to make this country a more and more attractive proposition for economic migrants?

 

[Groucho]

Do you think that anybody from any other country should be entitled to all the benefits open to people in this country?
It might sound good. But how would that work in practice?
Should we be paying pensions for people who have never worked in the UK. Wouldnt that mean the level of basic pension being cut?
Do you think its a good idea to make this country a more and more attractive proposition for economic migrants?

It has been accepted that if people are legally here they should get the same entitlements as the rest of us. A change to that would be a major attack on people's rights. As it happens immigration creates more wealth than it costs. Without immigration the UK economy would suffer, the health service would collapse etc
You mention pensions. As the UK population ages the ratio of pensioner to active worker increases - immigration is especially needed to increase the working age population precisely to fund pensions.

 

[becky p]

It has been accepted that if people are legally here they should get the same entitlements as the rest of us. A change to that would be a major attack on people's rights. As it happens immigration creates more wealth than it costs. Without immigration the UK economy would suffer, the health service would collapse etc
You mention pensions. As the UK population ages the ratio of pensioner to active worker increases - immigration is especially needed to increase the working age population precisely to fund pensions.

I agree with you without immigration the health service would have collapsed years ago. But the present levels of immigration are IMO unsustainable. I know Teachers who struggle due to having so many kids in their classes who speak English as a second language. Courts and Hospitals all need to spend more resources on interpreters.
Councils up and down the country are struggling to cope with a huge influx of people wanting existing and new services.

There is only so much housing and so much room. Wouldnt it be better to campaign for better wages and conditions in the countries that people come from?

 

[audiotech]

Do you think that anybody from any other country should be entitled to all the benefits open to people in this country?

Any other country? Bit of a broad sweep you're arguing there, which you've changed from your talk about migrants. Can you stick to the point in hand for once and understand that Groucho was specifically talking about migrants and not people from any other country.

The reality is this:

The UK, along with Ireland and Sweden granted workers from the eight Central European states (“A8 countries”) that joined the EU in May 2004 the right to enter and work. However, the right to work in the ‘flexible’ labour markets of the UK and Ireland was accompanied by restrictions on migrants’ access to unemployment and welfare benefits (see National Economic and Social Council of Ireland, 2006a; Ruhs, 2006b).

A new guest worker programme in discusssion would, also involve restrictions of at least some of the rights of migrant workers.

]

For example, by definition, guest workers have a time-limited right to residence and employment in the host country. Time spent in employment as a guest worker usually does not count or help a migrant earn permanent residence rights. Most guest worker programmes restrict migrants to employment in certain sectors, do not allow migrants to freely change employers, and require them to leave the country if they lose their jobs. Under most proposals for new guest worker programmes, migrants are also likely to have very restricted access to unemployment and welfare benefits and no right to family reunion.
http://www.compas.ox.ac.uk/publications/Working papers/WP0640-Ruhs-Martin.pdf

 

[becky p]

MC5 are you trying to make some point?

 

[audiotech]

MC5 are you trying to make some point?

Yeah, that you shifted the argument from migrants to immigrants and thereby confused the issue.

 

[nino_savatte]

So my ideas contribute directly to attacks on immigrants.

It is you who has the fixed ideas on immigration.You who has difficulty understanding that other people are entitled to different views on the subject.
You who seems intent on pushing more people towards the BNP.

And where have i said the UK is a crowded island? Parts of it are crowded,but large parts are not.

How many different interpreters are now required by schools,hospitals and the police service?
Who do you think should pick up the cost?

Margaret Hodge, the Labour MP for Barking has come out and said that many people in her constituency are really concerned by this issue.
Concerned that recent migrants get preference in social housing.
What would you and people like you say to them?

Do you write storylines for EastEnders? Because once again, you've made up what you think that I've said.

What is it with you lot? Why do you have to lie, cheat and misrepresent people's posts?

It is you who has the fixed ideas on immigration.You who has difficulty understanding that other people are entitled to different views on the subject.

Really? Where? I think those of you who are patently anti-immigration have not considered certain facts such as where ideas on immigration control actually come from, instead you get defensive and issue forth insults....that is all that you do

You who seems intent on pushing more people towards the BNP.

Really? I don't know how you worked that one out. How am I "pushing more people towards the BNP"? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Anyone who advocates tighter controls shares the BNP's pov.

Oh, and Margaret Hodge protected kiddy fiddlers when she was Leader of Islington Council. She's barking mad...if you'll pardon the pun.

 

[treelover]

Actually you are wrong there, any figures? and why are you, a Marxist (of sorts) sounding like someone from the CBI? strange bedfellows indeed.

As it happens immigration creates more wealth than it costs. Without immigration the UK economy would suffer, the health service would collapse etc
You mention pensions. As the UK population ages the ratio of pensioner to active worker increases - immigration is especially needed to increase the working age population precisely to fund pensions.
Reply With Quote

 

[Peet]

There is only so much housing and so much room. Wouldnt it be better to campaign for better wages and conditions in the countries that people come from?

Yes. For a start we could ditch the EU and scrap trade tarrifs on third world goods and give naval assistance to North Africa to sink Spanish trawlers

 

[durruti02]

But recent migrants do NOT get preference in social housing. Legal migrants are assessed on a par with everyone else.

Hodge went a bit further than even you have today in accepting parts of the BNP agenda. She stated today that migrants to Britain should not be treated equally with British citizens as regards social housing, but should be treated as second class citizens. When will people - and politicians especially - understand that accepting parts of the BNP argument does not weaken but strengthen the BNP?

not true/ you are wrong and something we have been through on here i think on the immigration/thatcherism thread .. maybe you missed it

thatcher changed housing allocation in favour of family size as opposed to local connections, and so a large migrant family will 'jump the queue'

also she did not say that migrants should be treated like second class citizens.

get your head around that supporting people where you live is NOT reactionary and the sooner the left do it the sooner the right will fade away

 

[durruti02]

It has been accepted that if people are legally here they should get the same entitlements as the rest of us. A change to that would be a major attack on people's rights. As it happens immigration creates more wealth than it costs. Without immigration the UK economy would suffer, the health service would collapse etc
You mention pensions. As the UK population ages the ratio of pensioner to active worker increases - immigration is especially needed to increase the working age population precisely to fund pensions.

incredible .. a SWPer arguing the line of the bosses!!

explain how the NHS would have collapsed??? there is full employment in this country is there!!!??????? there are 3 to 4 million out of work in this country ... but most will not work for SPIVUKincs wages .. and you peopel let the bosses then import cheap labour!! idiot!

fool .. the only reason we import labour is to save the middle/upper classes paying more tax .. to provide the spivs with bigger BMWs .. and you support this travesty!!!

importing cheap labour is colonialism .. it is RACISM .. it is 'lets get the darkies/slavs to do the dirty work' ...

you should be ashamed