Greek elections

[SpackleFrog]

one americanism and one missing apostrophe

AND A PEDANT IN A PEAR TREE.

 

[Pickman's model]

AND A PEDANT IN A PEAR TREE.

your keyboard seems to be playing up

 

[SpackleFrog]

your keyboard seems to be playing up

Aye, I blame the keyboard for the grammar errors too

 

[Pickman's model]

Aye, I blame the keyboard for the grammar errors too

and good workman and his tools

 

[J Ed]

Intersectionalistas take on Syriza

 

[butchersapron]

Intersectionalistas take on Syriza

Note: the author dispenses grace. And he taketh it away at will. Not a wider social movement.

 

[butchersapron]

Wow this is what fascism is in 2015:

a gang of skinheads

If they shaved their heads and climbed into combat trousers and Doc Martens

Lucky that's what the nazis wore.

This:

now the newly-crowned Prime Minister of Greece, may have read about how the German Communist Party linked up with Hitler’s Nazis in 1931.

is pretty much the zenith-data-cup of glib non-history posing as history.

the proletariat revolution

Marv. Just marv.

 

[butchersapron]

There are far better ways of saying that you don't like GUKIP and are worried what a deal with them might mean.

 

[butchersapron]

GUKIP have been a present dropped right in the lap of these types - now they get to continue.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Intersectionalistas take on Syriza

It's not as bad as it could be - there are legitimate fears and parallels given the instability of the situation.

Way, way over the top though.

 

[sunnysidedown]

I thought the Irate Greek made some good points without going too over the top.

 

[frogwoman]

Europe’s alarm bells should be ringing, after all that’s what the European project was set up to do in the first place after the Second World War.


No it wasn't

 

[frogwoman]

I like the first comment.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Europe’s alarm bells should be ringing, after all that’s what the European project was set up to do in the first place after the Second World War.


No it wasn't

Check your historical knowledge privilege!

You can't expect intersectionalists to know about the past, that was just loads of boring trade unionists and workerists.

 

[frogwoman]

I do agree that this is an “unholy alliance” and that Independent Greeks should never have been invited to participate in the government. However, the author has his facts wrong.

Comparing the Independent Greeks to the BNP is just wrong; the comparison with Ukip is more fitting. Independent Greeks are xenophobic and nationalistic, but they are not thugs like Golden Dawn, nor are they Nazis. Lumping your enemies together is not taking them seriously. This situation is in fact very different from the 1930s communist-nazi partnership; the dynamics are different, the power relations are different (SYRIZA has the upper hand here), the methods and ideology of Independent Greeks are different from the Nazis, and the type of alliance is also different. This is not to defend the alliance, but the distinction is important. Independent Greeks will undoubtedly attempt (and succeed in doing so, I fear) to sabotage the programme of the Left, but they currently have no power to oppress immigrants; they have no paramilitary branch and they do not hold the governmental positions they would need to oppress them legally. If I were an immigrant in Greece, I would not be afraid.

Attributing the failure of the Greek economy to the immigrant “black market” is laughable. Even if these people are legalised (which I eagerly anticipate now that SYRIZA is in power), their income is so low that they probably wouldn’t be taxed anyway. Not to mention that linking Greece’s financial problems to immigration is an error that can play right into the racists’ hands.

Fyssas’s murder was not merely “connected to Golden Dawn supporters”, it was committed by Golden Dawn members at the orders of their leaders. Keep that in mind when comparing them to the Independent Greeks, who – despicable as they are – stay within the bounds of legality.

Lastly, claiming that the leadership of SYRIZA chose to ally with the Independent Greeks because they’re “not anti-racist enough”, because they either don’t care or don’t get it (because they’re white non-immigrants) is a very superficial reading of the situation. SYRIZA didn’t move away from their anti-racist positions. What’s happening is that SYRIZA think they can use the Independent Greeks without having to capitulate to the agenda of the latter on any major issues. I think that this is dangerously underestimating the Independent Greeks. This is a mistake that they make because they’re reformist, and it has absolutely nothing to do with them being white non-immigrants. Political conscience is affected but not defined by the privileges one does or does not enjoy.

 

[brogdale]

Greek markets giving their verdict this am. Greek banks down between 20 to 25%.

e2a : and govt bond yields >16%!

They're all doing their bit to help.

 

[DotCommunist]

new avatar anyone?

 

[teuchter]

I am seeking your predictions for the performance of this government here:

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/greek-government-one-year-in-predictions.331679/

Any predictions made will be dragged up and used against you in January 2016.

 

[butchersapron]

Spam

 

[teuchter]

Corned beef.

 

[phildwyer]

Do you fancy it then?

Urban75
Symposium
The Asklepion Kos August 2015

Debate, Debauchery & Dwyer


Book early to ensure disappointment.​

I am so up for this. We could do a podcast.

 

[discokermit]

Intersectionalistas take on Syriza

''German Communists clearly thought that holding their nose and building a temporary alliance with the blackshirts would be in their short term interests, while forgetting about the communities who were under attack. After the Nazis had come for all those communities they came for the Communists.''


First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.


now, there are lots of versions of this neimoller poem, but they pretty much all start with the communists.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

hang on the German Communists worked with the Blackshirts?

 

[Nigel Irritable]

hang on the German Communists worked with the Blackshirts?

You can say anything you like about communists.

 

[rekil]

Intersectionalistas take on Syriza

According to wiki, Lester Holloway "left the Labour Party in 2000 after nine years, and is now a member of the Liberal Democrats."

lol

"He currently lives in Sutton, Surrey", a majority ABC1 town and part of a constituency where the combined LD/Con share of the vote was 88% in 2010. No wonder he's got his knickers in a twist about "proletarian revolution".

 

[brogdale]

According to wiki, Lester Holloway "left the Labour Party in 2000 after nine years, and is now a member of the Liberal Democrats."

lol

"He currently lives in Sutton, Surrey", a majority ABC1 town and part of a constituency where the combined LD/Con share of the vote was 88% in 2010. No wonder he's got his knickers in a twist about "proletarian revolution".

That's Sutton North LD councillor "brolezholloway" to you...

 

[phildwyer]

hang on the German Communists worked with the Blackshirts?

Or indeed with the Nazis? Wtf are you on about Discokermit?

 

[butchersapron]

Decent mini-analysis from Seymour on the deal:
http://www.leninology.co.uk/2015/01/syriza-anel-coalition.html?m=1

Here's Stathis Kouvelakis' reply - key point:

Thirdly, when Richard writes "this strategic idea of, to give it the 1970s Gramscian gloss, a 'national-popular', cross-class alliance to break the memorandum, has a very definite referent in the nature of the Greek struggle and in Syriza's analysis of Greek capitalism" I think he's entirely mistaken. No one has ever defended this type of line in Syriza, it is completely alien to all the variegated political subcultures of the party. In the Greek context this approach is typical Pasok 1970s "populist developmentism", of the Samir Amin, André Gunder-Frank version of the "centre-periphery" theory, and, historically speaking ALL currents of Syriza, whether Eurocommunists, Trotskyists, Movementists, or more traditional Communists have constituted themselves against it (with the possible exception of the Maoists). The rightist elements in Syriza, more particularly the two leading economists, defend a very mild form of Keynesian recipes softened up to look (on paper at least) compatible with the EU treatises. And the remaining few right-Eurocommunists (of the Platform 2010 pro-DIMAR tendency) just advocate a soft adaptation to globalization via the European integration channel. So even in that direction there is nothing remotely resembling the type of thinking Richard is referring to in order to provide some kind of "strategic" background to the alliance with ANEL.

 

[butchersapron]

Here's something else interesting:

The Spartacus Network:

'DIKTΥO SPARTAKOS', the network of the conscripts

What is the Soldiers-Network 'Diktio Spartakos'?

In both Greece and Turkey, conscription still exists. No matter their political orientation (center-left, center-right, pro-islamic or military-oriented), governments at both sides of the Aegean use the young people from the labour class as soldiers and - when needed - as cheap labour force. The role of these young people for the government is to be wasted for the sake of the competition for regional domination between the Greek and the Turkish bourgeois class.


Diktyo Spartakos is active since 1992. Since then, it aims at creating a movement inside and out of the army. Diktyo Spartakos is the driving force of the movement that cancelled the plans of the Greek government for establishing conscription at 18 years old, just after school. Moreover, it forced the government to limit the period of the military duty to 9 months. Diktyo Spartakos defends the rights of conscripts and struggles for the respect of human dignity in the army against the military dogmas of the militarism that prioritize the readiness to fight of the army.

Diktyo Spartakos plays the main role in the development of Free Syndicalism for conscripts. Diktyo Spartakos is the backbone of the antiwar, antinationalist and antimilitary movement.

Greek site here and some more english info here

 

[hipipol]

if I were Greek I'd want the Drachma back and I'd want to have pretty much all of the previous elite/power brokers taken out and shot