youngian
Well-Known Member
What the fuck does that even mean? Cameron is out of his depth discussing fishing quotas in Brussels let alone commenting on Eurozone geo-politics. If you walked through his deepest thoughts you'd hardly get your feet wet.
Greek elections
- Thread starter ska invita
- Start date
What the fuck does that even mean? Cameron is out of his depth discussing fishing quotas in Brussels let alone commenting on Eurozone geo-politics. If you walked through his deepest thoughts you'd hardly get your feet wet.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
I don't see why. The main problem for exit is guaranteeing the availability of certain basic commodities that need to be imported - oil, some foodstuffs etc etc. So you'd need deals with - Russia and whoever in place. Then you issue a new drachma, it plummets in value and you instantly have the cheapest holiday destination in Europe + the cheapest exports of olive oil and whatever else Greece sells abroad and you'd get pretty much instant pick up of the economy. Crucially for a left govt, the benefits would go most rapidly to those currently out of work while many of the costs would land on the rich who would be making profits in relatively worthless drachmas (at least worthless outside of Greece where they currently stash their assets).
That's a tad simplistic but in essence it's what countries like Spain and Italy did through the 60s.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Got to say, whatever you think of Syriza, we need something a bit better than the Green Party here in the UK through which to express rejection of austerity/neoliberalism.Osborne saying it's not austerity they've rejected, but the wrong kind of austerity
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
after seeing Natalie Bennett cross swords on the Politics show with Andrew Neil, i now fully understand why Cameron was so keen to have her on the televised election debates.
she makes Andy Burnham look like Emeritas Professor of Detail and Grasp of Policy at Cambridge...
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
I think he's saying Syrizas win shows we should redouble our efforts in the war on terror through state access to all communication now.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
tbh, I think he will have been dismayed...his game-plan was for her to out-flank Miliband.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
true - though i suppose it depends on whether he's seeing it from 'Greens do well in debates - take votes from Labour', or 'Greens as the soft underbelly of the Left (in the UK context) - when they get torn up it makes the other (vaguely) left parties look bad'.
i doubt we'll be hearing 'well, i agree with Natalie..' very much in thids election...
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
In less than an hour! Almost like 'Blue Peter'.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
..in the Italian sunken garden...after it was trashed by Ferdinand and pals...and Percy long dead.
Wolveryeti
Detty Pig
Worth noting that Greece are forcast to have a primary budget surplus in 2015 before debt is taken into account. This means they could in theory default and not be successfully punished by the bond markets. A strong bargaining position to be in...
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
I thought that was the Jesus & Mary Chain?
DownwardDog
Riding a Brompton with a power meter.
But that's with expenditure set for neoliberal austerity (always the worst kind) which apparently they are not doing anymore.
It's a pity that Syriza were forced into a collaboration with the Greek equivalent of UKIP in order to form a government. This rather takes the shine off the story and sounds like a very complicated outcome from a policy point of view.
Cameron and his deliberate continuing focus on British internal security gives the impression he doesn't want anyone to have a broader political perspective and look at what is happening in the larger world. which is to him a dangerous place that he doesn't understand.
Cameron and his deliberate continuing focus on British internal security gives the impression he doesn't want anyone to have a broader political perspective and look at what is happening in the larger world. which is to him a dangerous place that he doesn't understand.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Brilliant results but the hangover didn't take long to kick in. Will take a lot of misreading of Poulantzas and Gramsci to justify this deal with Kammenos. "A hegemonic pact with the progressive bourgeoisie against fiscal imperialism" or something like that. Although how the Greek Farage is progressive is anyone's guess.
Maurice Picarda
Actually, might as well flounce.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Most of the key stuff isn't going to be happening in parliament - and i mean that in the dual sense of the elite negotiations that Syriza will now be involved in and the extra-parliamentary stuff that is required to socially surround these negotiations - so the GUKIP isn't really going to matter in practical terms. And they'll force some much-needed anti-troika backbone into the Syriza majority.
edit: by the Syriza majority i don't mean parliamentary majority, i mean the majority bloc who run Syriza and are seeking to centralise the party, remove bottom up structures and power etc and are wobbling over the Thessaloniki agreement.
edit: by the Syriza majority i don't mean parliamentary majority, i mean the majority bloc who run Syriza and are seeking to centralise the party, remove bottom up structures and power etc and are wobbling over the Thessaloniki agreement.
Last edited:
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
godwins tho
youngian
Well-Known Member
Even the Tories no longer entertain the delusion that a country's national prestige and virility is tied up in a overvalued currency. Greece's situation is not unlike Churchill pegging Sterling to the Gold Standard in his hopeless tenure as chancellor in the late 20s.
I don't know about his Greek equivalent but Farage will appropriate any argument to further his anti-EU agenda. So although he wants to impose ECB style deflationary economics on the UK he is OK with Keynesian economics in Greece if it defies ECB budget criteria.
Maurice Picarda
Actually, might as well flounce.
Not serious, I do realise the difference between the IndyGreeks and Golden Dawn. And between Tsipras and Joe, come to that. Still, strange bedfellows.
youngian
Well-Known Member
Or what the UK is doing now by devaluing and deficit spending your way out of trouble. And the economic climate has made it more favourable than the stagflation era of the 70s which led countries like Spain and Italy to conclude this path was a zero sum game. The difference is that they had there own currency to do it, Greece doesn't. I believe economists advising Syriza are split on the issue of Euro withdrawal but no one is pretending its an easy option.
This in an interesting article which argues that Grexit would be worse for the EU than it would be Greece
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...y-believes-the-euro-could-survive-greek-exit/
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
Those aren't the differences which make the post so silly...although they don't help.
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
That's a view and its shared by many 'anti politics' types. Paul Mason says exactly what you do this morning that the key stuff is outside parliament. Which sounds cool but giving a rabid chauvinist like Kammenos a veto over all sorts of legislation matters. Framing the job of the government as 'national salvation' matters.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
This framing hasn't happened - or at least, the GUKIP haven't yet added anything to what was already coming from the Syriza majority. And in terms of practical stuff, there's no way that they will be give a veto over any of the things central to them (immigration basically) or of the things central to Syriza.
