A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
This x 25. You’ve only got to look at the usual suspects on here…
Golliwog in the window - should this really be in court?
- Thread starter Corax
- Start date
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
More accurately:
Combahee River Collective statement, 1977
Prof Kimberlé Crenshaw - Mapping the Margins: Intersectionality, Identity Politics and Violence against Women of Color, 1989 - link
bimble
floofy
What is the point of this post ?
It seems to say, until everybody in the land has a fancy car, don't ask me to care about institutional racism. But it can't be that.
Yossarian
⏭️
Yeah, I just used "white people can drive around in expensive cars without worrying that the police will stop them because of the colour of their skin" as an example of a kind of discrimination police are very notorious for and few people would deny happens, the point would be little changed if you took the word "expensive" out of the sentence, or substituted literally any other activity for "driving around in expensive cars."
andysays
Love and solidarity
Maybe the point is that there are, IMO, rather more serious aspects of institutional racism than the police stopping people in expensive cars, so whoever gave that as their example of "white privilege" might have picked a better one, especially if they are interested in actually persuading anyone yet to be persuaded that the term has any value beyond the individual point scoring it so often descends into.
Sorry for ignoring first time. Arguably that is white male privilege and I’ll take that on the chin. Reading now.
bimble
floofy
I suspect that really you just don't like the word privilege, which i get, it's got associations that don't work, privilge sounds like it means luxury, a life of ease.
That's not the point though, that would just be very stupid. I mean you obvs don't need well-chosen examples to convince you that racism and sexism etc exist and that they make things a lot worse for some people than they would otherwise be, so its just the term you have a problem with, and i dunno how important that is really.
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Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
About the same time, my mum and dad decided to move out of Wembley, to a New Town because they thought it would be a less racist place than London to bring up a mixed race kid.
We ended up in Bracknell, ffs!
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
They've been in power the best part of a century, if not longer
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
The best analogy I’ve heard about the bubble of privilege some people live in was to do with driving around in a massive 4x4 blithely unaware of their surroundings cos they’re safe and well armoured, while other people have to drive around in tiny hatchbacks edging out gingerly to avoid being blindsided by a Chelsea tractor. If you’ve always driven around in a 4x4 feeling pretty relaxed cos people in smaller vehicles will just have to give way, then you won’t be aware of your ‘privilege’, unless you have also tried edging out onto an A-road in a mini while the monster trucks zoom by obliviously.
I haven’t related it terribly well but you get the gist of it
I haven’t related it terribly well but you get the gist of it
kenny g
Sheeple Awake!
Most of these types from my area of far east London/ Essex borderlands have fucked off to Suffolk and populate our local Facebook page whingeing about how their former town has become terrible since they left. Presumably because as gin sodden outsiders in their wind swept hell holes they are left with little more than memories over a life.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
It wasn’t just racists who voted in favour of golliwogs. Cunts did too.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Golly dolls (I prefer not to use the w word) may have had in previous times an innocent aspect to them, but the way that racists have glommed onto them as objects for attempting to "subtly" signal their shitness, has all but ensured that they are now 100% awful, and anybody displaying one outside of an appropriate educational or historical context is a very sussy baka.
I never had one, as a child of '87 I think gollies were widely recognised as problematic by then. But I do remember reading some Asterix comic books in the local library which had some retrospectively no-good depictions of African characters. I was too innocent at the time to make the connection between those drawings and the black people who were my neighbours and classmates in south-east London. But if you're old enough to obtain a licence to sell alcohol, then you should definitely know better by now. I like to think the educational and recreational benefits of self-motivated reading outweighed the negative portrayals within those works, but at the very least it would have been super fucking awkward if I had chosen those characters to draw in my free time, instead of rocketship blueprints and Martian tripods from The War of The Worlds.
I never had one, as a child of '87 I think gollies were widely recognised as problematic by then. But I do remember reading some Asterix comic books in the local library which had some retrospectively no-good depictions of African characters. I was too innocent at the time to make the connection between those drawings and the black people who were my neighbours and classmates in south-east London. But if you're old enough to obtain a licence to sell alcohol, then you should definitely know better by now. I like to think the educational and recreational benefits of self-motivated reading outweighed the negative portrayals within those works, but at the very least it would have been super fucking awkward if I had chosen those characters to draw in my free time, instead of rocketship blueprints and Martian tripods from The War of The Worlds.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
The bottom 50 % of us own about 20% of the national wealth and that hasn't changed much since the Second World War regardless of which party was in government. The top 10% have between 35-40% and was, if anything, higher under Blair than Thatcher.
I'd rather live under a Labour Government than a Tory one but the difference between them is of degree. Labour will never seriously seek to redistribute wealth. The Tories will shit more on those on the margin, they'll limit expenditure on health and they will privatise more health provision, but they're too scared of the electoral consequences to abolish the deal that we don't pay for medical provision. In a crisis, British politicians compromise. Labour bailed out the banks in 2008 and the Tories paid me and millions of others 80% of our salaries during lock-down
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The innocent aspect of them surely only really involves the small kids who didn't know better. But these are caricatures of black people as seen through the eyes of racist white people. I've no idea who originally designed them, but whoever it was was far from innocent.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Children are people too. I do think their ignorance shields them as far as it goes. But grown-up people have no excuse.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
On the subject of people who have moved out from the east end...
Family and Kinship in East London (published 1957) was a fairly detailed study of communities from the Bethnal Green area who had either stayed put or moved out to new post-1945 estates then on the London / Essex fringes (then given a fictional name, but mostly round Debden, which had BNP councillors elected in the 2000's) - it identified some people drifting towards more insular / nuclear family / right wing attitudes then after people had moved from terraced streets to semi detached houses.
In looking that up, I found that The New East End: Kinship, Race and Conflict was published in 2009, and passed me by. (copy now on order) - the blurb includes
which - until such time as I read it - could be interpreted a number of ways. Government policies that created an artificial shortage of social housing and scapegoated those who qualify for it? I might agree with that, possible other interpretations possibly not...
andysays
Love and solidarity
Yes, it's a term I have a massive problem with, because it tends to be individualistic rather than focusing on the system or the collective, and because it's alienating and divisive rather than bringing people together.
All too often it comes across as point scoring, as a way of simply telling some people to shut up.
And I'll add that while many of my black and minority ethic friends and colleagues (and my partner) have spoken to me or in my hearing about their experiences of racism, I've never once heard any of them use the expression White Privilege. This includes, for example, the many black TU stewards I work with, including the secretary of my branch and the Regional Officer.
It generally appears to be an expression used by people who, if we must use the term, carry their own, often unacknowledged or unexamined, material or educational privilege.
It's also a diversion from the main subject of this thread, so I'm happy to let it drop.
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bimble
floofy
Yep fair enough. I’ve definitely never heard anyone say it, seems to belong online & in academia. I struggle to spell it. But the idea isn’t difficult imo, think it’s just an unfortunate language thing.
The only time I’ve ever had the word pop up in my brain voluntarily was one time getting on a flight back to uk with weed in my luggage and seeing loads of other people all of them not white unlike me getting pulled over & searched, felt aware of my privilege in a very obvious way then.
bimble
floofy
I think it’s great, her second that I know of complete fuckup in the culture wars, leapt in to defend the innocent non-racistness of this pub twat who thinks that lynchings were a laugh and wears Britain first t-shirts in his free time. Humiliating as fuck for her, good stuff.
eatmorecheese
He's fallen out of the car again
Most people can see that, but I doubt it bothers her. She seems to be throwing red meat around for the far right of the Tory party to consider her as leader following the next election. That's my take anyway. A race-baiting piece of shit.
My masters course included taught courses on political psychology and what we might call the psychology of the social sphere. Both these courses focused heavily on the kind of topics that are covered by these concepts, including the power relations of racism, intersectionality and so on and theories of social dominance, hierarchy etc. The word “privilege” (in the sense of “white privilege” or “male privilege”) never turned up once, to my memory. I think it’s a word that belongs to a particular milieu, and that milieu is not really academia either. At least, not some of the areas of academia you (and I) might expect to find it. I think it’s too essentialised a term for how contemporary political psychology tackles questions of power and dominance.
To me, it’s a phrase that I associate with a particular type of modern communication that is seeking to represent to others the ways that oppression can be hidden through the asymmetric behaviours and ideological assumptions embedded in society. In that sense, I think it has a use. It anchors the hidden oppression to an idea that others can understand. But this also puts it at risk of being overused, and inappropriately used.
bimble
floofy
Tempting to say don’t be silly she couldn’t get the votes to be the leader of her local neighbourhood watch facebook group but then I remembered that she is the actual Home Secretary so yeah fuck knows.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
I think there are definitely examples of it being used in really unhelpful ways. But I also think some people seem determined to see it everywhere, all the time, even if no-one has mentioned it. It's like Goldsmiths University's student diversity officer stalks their nightmares every single night.
eatmorecheese
He's fallen out of the car again
Yeah, probably far fetched, but after Priti Patel and PM Truss it makes me pause for thought.
bimble
floofy
Gonna do it and out myself as a person who really did go to goldsmiths and it was all of that stuff and way over the top but I mostly sleep ok.
Quote fuckup..
My masters course included taught courses on political psychology and what we might call the psychology of the social sphere. Both these courses focused heavily on the kind of topics that are covered by these concepts, including the power relations of racism, intersectionality and so on and theories of social dominance, hierarchy etc. The word “privilege” (in the sense of “white privilege” or “male privilege”) never turned up once, to my memory. I think it’s a word that belongs to a particular milieu, and that milieu is not really academia either. At least, not some of the areas of academia you (and I) might expect to find it. I think it’s too essentialised a term for how contemporary political psychology tackles questions of power and dominance.
i really don’t find it problematic, but get why others do. Think it’s an important concept and just rubs people up the wrong way understandably because they react to the word, like fuck off calling me privileged I can’t pay the rent.
I see it as a situational thing: If I was walking past that arsehole’s pub and wanted a pint or needed a wee I’d brobably be fine, get what I needed without refusal or risk of violence, apart from the risk of groping on way past the bar apparently. I benefit from the advantage of being a white person, very often / a lot of the time in fact, whilst sometimes in some situations I’m reminded that being female is a risk, that’s it.
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MSc Social and Cultural Psychology
Obtain a grounded understanding of theoretical and applied issues as well as a sophisticated training in a broad range of research methods.
www.lse.ac.uk
In the first term, you do a core SCP module. In the second term, you can choose 2 from almost any elective level 4 courses the LSE offers. I did political psychology and social representations. All three were excellent.
Books wise: mostly, I’ve been reading srs bsnss text books, I’m afraid. They’re not really fun evening reading. But although it’s a bit tangential to this stuff, I would definitely recommend Hannah Arendt’s “The Origins of Totalitarianism”. It’s over 70 years old now but it remains the seminal analysis of how humans turn to totalitarianism. It’s also horribly relevant to today’s world — some of the parallels are worrying.
izz
Increased Leisure Citizen
That looks totally fascinating, I've been drawn to social psychology through an interest in organisational culture though cheerfully admit to knowing nothing about eitherMSc Social and Cultural Psychology
Obtain a grounded understanding of theoretical and applied issues as well as a sophisticated training in a broad range of research methods.
In the first term, you do a core SCP module. In the second term, you can choose 2 from almost any elective level 4 courses the LSE offers. I did political psychology and social representations. All three were excellent.
Books wise: mostly, I’ve been reading srs bsnss text books, I’m afraid. They’re not really fun evening reading. But although it’s a bit tangential to this stuff, I would definitely recommend Hannah Arendt’s “The Origins of Totalitarianism”. It’s over 70 years old now but it remains the seminal analysis of how humans turn to totalitarianism. It’s also horribly relevant to today’s world — some of the parallels are worrying.
. Thanks for the book recommendation and I'll stalk the course details for more Similar threads
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