Golliwog in the window - should this really be in court?

[Magnus McGinty]

Cos conversations meander naturally.

Triggered by Spymaster

 

[tim]

I think, for me, the difference is that Thatcher was near the start of a project that's now had 40+ years of victories and consolidation. It's easier to imagine reversing a project in its earlier stages than one that is hegemonically triumphant.

What project? The Tories stumble from mishap to mishap. There is no guiding vision, no great hegemonic triumph.

 

[chilango]

What project? The Tories stumble from mishap to mishap. There is no guiding vision, no great hegemonic triumph.

If only.

"Economics are the method: the object is to change the soul" Thatcher, 1981.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Not necessarily.jyst because they haven't complained about being pulled over or told you about being pulled over, it doesn't mean that they've never been pulled over by the police.

Go and read the statistics regarding black stop and search Vs white stop and search. Go and read about how black children are six times more likely to be subjected to a strip search that white children.

I’m not trying to diminish what you say or deny that it happens. I suppose what irks me the most about White Privilege is that parts of the left entirely focus on things like refugees in Calais, which does deserve attention but they’re less bothered about folk who might live a neighbourhood away because they’re privileged. It boils my piss tbh.

 

[chilango]

I’m not trying to diminish what you say or deny that it happens. I suppose what irks me the most about White Privilege is that parts of the left entirely focus on things like refugees in Calais, which does deserve attention but they’re less bothered about folk who might live a neighbourhood away because they’re privileged. It boils my piss tbh.

I don't think "white privilege" has anything to do with that kinda thing. Remember Irrelevant Battles by Patrik Fitzgerald? 1978 that was released.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I’m not trying to diminish what you say or deny that it happens. I suppose what irks me the most about White Privilege is that parts of the left entirely focus on things like refugees in Calais, which does deserve attention but they’re less bothered about folk who might live a neighbourhood away because they’re privileged. It boils my piss tbh.

None of the people I've known who got involved in Calais refugee stuff would say it's anything to do with White Privilege I don't think.

As I see it they just see an urgent need and are trying to help out. A lot do also get involved more locally but trying to shift entrenched local issues can get pretty demoralising.

 

[krtek a houby]

I’m not trying to diminish what you say or deny that it happens. I suppose what irks me the most about White Privilege is that parts of the left entirely focus on things like refugees in Calais, which does deserve attention but they’re less bothered about folk who might live a neighbourhood away because they’re privileged. It boils my piss tbh.

Guess the folks who live a neighborhood away are, to an extent, privileged for the simple reason that they have somewhere to live? As opposed to people who have nothing but their clothes and one or two belongings, risking their lives only to die at sea or face malice upon arrival at a new country...

 

[Rob Ray]

One thing about the left is that, much diminished, it doesn't have the strength in depth to be coherent about its choice of fights and thus ends up clout-chasing topics as they come up. As with Palestine, or particular Bills, many very decent people focus and fight on migration because it's something that they see happening in the media and want to make a difference on, while not necessarily having the more nebulous connectivity that is required to take the same tack within their own communities. Which is a function of many things but principally a broad collapse of the "living left" (ie. communities which are coherent and engaged on that political level) and the deliberate, pervasive and extreme atomisation of 21st century society. Often it's not that the left doesn't want to be involved with fighting for working class communities, it's that it isn't respected and doesn't know how (though that's not to undersell the amount of lefties who are also just thoughtless studenty or middle class types who are in it for their reputations/jobs).

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Guess the folks who live a neighborhood away are, to an extent, privileged for the simple reason that they have somewhere to live? As opposed to people who have nothing but their clothes and one or two belongings, risking their lives only to die at sea or face malice upon arrival at a new country...

It's not a good term politically, though, is it? Not when used about people who are struggling to pay the bills, keep the kids clothed, etc. In the context of our society, such people are not privileged. And that's not 'white' privilege anyway.

 

[equationgirl]

I’m not trying to diminish what you say or deny that it happens. I suppose what irks me the most about White Privilege is that parts of the left entirely focus on things like refugees in Calais, which does deserve attention but they’re less bothered about folk who might live a neighbourhood away because they’re privileged. It boils my piss tbh.

Well, no-one can care about everything all the time without suffering immense burnout. I know people that did incredibly awesome work with refugees but eventually moved onto to other causes because of the white privilege and gatekeeping within organisations supposedly set up to help people. I don't think it's that people don't care, but emotional burnout is real. I think respectfully you're looking at things in too black and white and expecting an awful lot from people.

 

[pbsmooth]

Recently had an argument with (white American) drinking associate, who reckons he's liberal and he's of the opinion that BLM and trans rights have "gone too far".

What does that even mean?

Straight white males are trembling at the thought of some kind of equality?

if you fall down the rabbit hole then you can be fed all sorts of shite that would have you believe kids are being taught to be trans, or babies are being taken to naked drag shows, or whatever else conspiracy. looks at that twat on Fox News and the gay M&Ms or whatever it was.
it's just an extension of how your gran has her opinion slowly moulded by being bombarded by whatever the Mail or Telegraph publish every day. unfortunately some bad actors and arseholes post complete nonsense, that some people do believe means bad things are happening and the lefties are doing it.

 

[Spymaster]

Guess the folks who live a neighborhood away are, to an extent, privileged for the simple reason that they have somewhere to live? As opposed to people who have nothing but their clothes and one or two belongings, risking their lives only to die at sea or face malice upon arrival at a new country...

"Who's less privileged?" is a silly game though. By that standard the people in tents at Calais would lose out to the homeless of India without tents.

Magnus is right. "White privilege" is a shit term because it's so poorly defined.

 

[ash]

Just checked out their website and saw this:

“Very much a local’s local, The White Hart Inn is now virtually unrecognisable as the result of massive upgrading which has been extended to all parts of the building. But it is not just the fabric that has been upgraded; there has been a clean sweep of any undesirable elements thus making The White Hart Inn a safe and friendly pub for both the established local resident and the increasing number of people moving in to the area. “

Was “a clean sweep of any undesirable elements “ added after all this… is it a joke ?!?!
If it was there before how ironic!

 

[existentialist]

Didn’t have a golly but did have a book called Little Black Sambo which is pretty grotesque

I remember being read that book in school. Around 1968.

 

[Pickman's model]

I’m not trying to diminish what you say or deny that it happens. I suppose what irks me the most about White Privilege is that parts of the left entirely focus on things like refugees in Calais, which does deserve attention but they’re less bothered about folk who might live a neighbourhood away because they’re privileged. It boils my piss tbh.

yes. you've never noticed how the further away things are, the more attractive they are to campaign on? it's not because the people nearer are privileged, it's often imo because you don't need to do so much for people who are further away who don't really know of your existence.

 

[Pickman's model]

Just checked out their website and saw this:

“Very much a local’s local, The White Hart Inn is now virtually unrecognisable as the result of massive upgrading which has been extended to all parts of the building. But it is not just the fabric that has been upgraded; there has been a clean sweep of any undesirable elements thus making The White Hart Inn a safe and friendly pub for both the established local resident and the increasing number of people moving in to the area. “

Was “a clean sweep of any undesirable elements “ added after all this… is it a joke ?!?!
If it was there before how ironic!

it's certainly not true as they haven't got rid of the racists yet

 

[Magnus McGinty]

"Who's less privileged?" is a silly game though. By that standard the people in tents at Calais would lose out to the homeless of India without tents.

Magnus is right. "White privilege" is a shit term because it's so poorly defined.

Refugees tend to be middle class as they have the capital to be able to escape. Indian children searching for anything of value on scrap heaps less so.
This is all charitable work to be considered.
But does nothing to build a counter-power to capital.

 

[Rob Ray]

Magnus is right. "White privilege" is a shit term because it's so poorly defined.

I'd change the word "poorly" to "often," myself.

 

[krtek a houby]

It's not a good term politically, though, is it? Not when used about people who are struggling to pay the bills, keep the kids clothed, etc. In the context of our society, such people are not privileged. And that's not 'white' privilege anyway.

Of course not.

There's millions suffering and dying from the weight of capitalist, Tory government. Regardless of colour/creed/heritage.

Look, am seeing a lot of anger directed at migrants, drowned or otherwise. But, yes, there's no denying it's shit for settled people in dire circumstances.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

I remember being read that book in school. Around 1968.

Same here.

 

[pbsmooth]

that book still seems to be big in Japan... The Story of Little Black Sambo - Wikipedia

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

But does nothing to build a counter-power to capital.

Sure, but if you say 'how do I build counter-power to capital', someone will send you to a meeting at which half a dozen people will all fall out with each other. Whereas if you give a refugee a pair of shoes at least someone has some shoes that didn't before.

That's a bit glib obviously but not a million miles out I don't think.

 

[Spymaster]

that book still seems to be big in Japan...

Alright

 

[krtek a houby]

that book still seems to be big in Japan... The Story of Little Black Sambo - Wikipedia

What's that got to do with the topic?

 

[chilango]

Refugees tend to be middle class as they have the capital to be able to escape.

Might be true of refugees reaching the UK, certainly isn't true globally - most refugees are in neighbouring countries to the one they fled from.

 

[seeformiles]

I'm surprised that a few people on here had golliwog dolls as children, didn't know we were that old, but also i don't really understand what they were - i mean were they just part of your toy collection, and seen as something like a doll but not gendered so more like a cuddly bear or what?

I had a cuddly Golly - given to me by my great aunt just before she emigrated to Canada in 1972. He was just part of the soft toy collection - no more no less. However I didn’t think he was the same as Enid Blyton’s creations which were about as racist as you could get. Also, being in N.Ireland, I’d never seen a black person in my life - apart from on TOTP.

 

[krtek a houby]

I'm surprised that a few people on here had golliwog dolls as children, didn't know we were that old, but also i don't really understand what they were - i mean were they just part of your toy collection, and seen as something like a doll but not gendered so more like a cuddly bear or what?

The 70s aren't that far away...

On the plus side, was lucky enough to own the Tom Stone Action Man figure, which was genuinely beloved.

 

[tim]

If only.

"Economics are the method: the object is to change the soul" Thatcher, 1981.

A pompous quote from Thatcher, so what?

The Tories are fucking useless, and riven with internal divisions. There is no underlying vision. The claim that there is, is pathetic conspiracy theory, used to excuse the fact that the British left is equally clueless and incoherent.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Might be true of refugees reaching the UK, certainly isn't true globally - most refugees are in neighbouring countries to the one they fled from.

Yeah, apologies, I was thinking about the actions specifically with Syrian refugees to the UK which admittedly was a while ago. Should have made that clearer.

 

[Orang Utan]

What's that got to do with the topic?

You may have missed my mention of it