Golliwog in the window - should this really be in court?

[Elpenor]

Think we had all my dad’s G A Henty books from the 50s which I never bothered reading as they looked boring but they all seemed to be rather imperialistic from the front covers at least

 

[chilango]

You mean more people will just shrug and say “so what” if called out on something clearly racist?

Yep.
...and also no longer bothering to "code" or hide their racism.

 

[Rob Ray]

I think Gollywogs are a prime example of something that has sat for a long time in a sort of grey area of is/isn't understood to be racist, with recognition of what it was actually representing being something that initially happened infrequently, growing over time. I've no doubt a fair number of people, looking at the first mass produced examples, immediately identified it as such while others just thought "oh a cute doll" and others still thought of it as a benign caricature. As time goes on the excuses get progressively thinner, relying more and more on a pretense of ignorance in the face of widespread media attention, to cover for nostalgic attachment and a reluctance to taint happy childhood memories.

 

[muscovyduck]

When these people are saying they're not racist, they're not claiming they don't hate people because of their ethnicity, they're claiming that the way they behave is deemed culturally acceptable and therefore you're not allowed to insult them over it.

 

[xenon]

Had one when I was about 4, circa 1980. It was a hand me down I think. Looked like the one off the jam IIRC, yellow jumper, red trousers, blue scarf / tye. Did not think of it as a black person, more a garish teddy. Got disappeared at some point, was a bit raggedy. Obviously my parents were a bit cognicent of it's wrongness as it was only called golly.

Not my thing but keeping an old teddy of racist derivation, from your childhood is not a problem persay. You know, in the cupboard, with the other tat or whatever. Slightly different to what this racist tosser landlord has been doing obviously.

 

[blossie33]

I'm surprised that a few people on here had golliwog dolls as children, didn't know we were that old, but also i don't really understand what they were - i mean were they just part of your toy collection, and seen as something like a doll but not gendered so more like a cuddly bear or what?

I'm old enough to have had a gollywog doll, to me it was a character like any other - an Andy Pandy or Looby Loo (remember them?!) we never connected them to anything else.
I can also remember the Robinson's jam gollys which you could save up for a free badge - my mother used to pinch the odd one or two from jars in the shop to speed up the collection very naughty.

I can however understand the objections today.

 

[Dystopiary]

You mean more people will just shrug and say “so what” if called out on something clearly racist?

Yep.
...and also no longer bothering to "code" or hide their racism.

Rather than confirm or deny it they accuse people who challenge them of being "woke."

 

[Raheem]

Fighting racism with racism.

Essex isn't a race. It's a religion.

 

[8ball]

Rather than confirm or deny it they accuse people who challenge them of being "woke."

The landlord of this particular pub went old skool and used the term "politically correct".

 

[tonysingh]

Didn’t have a golly but did have a book called Little Black Sambo which is pretty grotesque

I adored the Asterix books as a child and have started collecting them again now but upon reflection, some of the racial stereotypes are wince inducing

 

[marty21]

The landlord of this particular pub went old skool and used the term "politically correct".

he hates Muslims and had a holiday home in Turkey

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The landlord of this particular pub went old skool and used the term "politically correct".

That's the thing. This isn't new. I'm not so sure we're really seeing a big change right now. We have Tories in power who have mostly invented the idea of 'woke' as a straw man. Yes, the term has particular origins, but 'the woke agenda' is something made up by the reactionary right. However, this idea of the right inventing an extreme left agenda to kick against has been kicking around at least since Thatcher. It just has a new name.

 

[Rob Ray]

Woke's been more successful than politically correct in creating a sustained moral panic that pulls people in beyond the usual suspects I think, largely because it mashed in a load of stuff which people are more reasonably irritated about in modern life (primarily foolhardy social media pile-ons from people who think they can impose the more rarified air of their own circles onto people who don't use the same rhetorical/behavioural toolkit).

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Woke's been more successful than politically correct in creating a sustained moral panic that pulls people in beyond the usual suspects I think, largely because it mashed in a load of stuff which people are more reasonably irritated about in modern life (primarily foolhardy social media pile-ons from people who think they can impose the more rarified air of their own circles onto people who don't use the same rhetorical/behavioural toolkit).

In the States Trump called it 'Antifa'.

 

[A380]

Rather than confirm or deny it they accuse people who challenge them of being "woke."

And the obvious response to that is to call them a cunt. See how concerns over sensitivity go down then...

 

[The39thStep]

That's the thing. This isn't new. I'm not so sure we're really seeing a big change right now. We have Tories in power who have mostly invented the idea of 'woke' as a straw man. Yes, the term has particular origins, but 'the woke agenda' is something made up by the reactionary right. However, this idea of the right inventing an extreme left agenda to kick against has been kicking around at least since Thatcher. It just has a new name.

True . Remember the cartoons about ‘left wing ‘ councils and the GLC , the word ‘blackboard ‘ being banned and people told they couldn’t hold doors open for women ?

 

[chilango]

"Woke" has been more successful than 'PC gawn mad" etc. because...

a) Even under Thatcher enough stuff was still "getting better" to provide the hope of light at the end of the tunnel.

b) There were visible, and tangible, poles of opposition.

Now everything is shit, and definitely getting rapidly worse with no hope of slowing, nevermind changing, (channelling LLETSA here) that despair and nihilism infect the entire political spectrum.

 

[8ball]

And the obvious response to that is to call them a cunt. See how concerns over sensitivity go down then...

It will make no difference whatsoever. The section of the right that is powering much of this is increasingly unfussed about being called names.

 

[8ball]

True . Remember the cartoons about ‘left wing ‘ councils and the GLC , the word ‘blackboard ‘ being banned and people told they couldn’t hold doors open for women ?

And Birmingham banning Christmas.

 

[Brainaddict]

I'm surprised that a few people on here had golliwog dolls as children, didn't know we were that old, but also i don't really understand what they were - i mean were they just part of your toy collection, and seen as something like a doll but not gendered so more like a cuddly bear or what?

I remember them being around as a kid, including on jam. Looking it up I'm somewhat shocked to see Robertsons didn't drop their 'mascot' until 2001. We also bought most of our kids books second-hand, which meant we had loads from 50s-70s, which were about as enlightened as you would expect. Coming from a conservative family and a conservative area, I didn't hear arguments against golliwogs until I left home.

 

[marty21]

These days you get arrested just for saying you're English

 

[8ball]

These days you get arrested just for saying you're English

When did this come in?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

When did this come in?

It's part of the new Sharia Law.

 

[8ball]

It's part of the new Sharia Law.

Are you sure?

 

[SpookyFrank]

"Woke" has been more successful than 'PC gawn mad" etc. because...

a) Even under Thatcher enough stuff was still "getting better" to provide the hope of light at the end of the tunnel.

b) There were visible, and tangible, poles of opposition.

Now everything is shit, and definitely getting rapidly worse with no hope of slowing, nevermind changing, (channelling LLETSA here) that despair and nihilism infect the entire political spectrum.

I think it's mostly been more successful because it's just the one syllable. Something you can just bark out as a purely emotional response before the intellect has time to get a handle on it.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

'Woke' has managed to maintain more of an amorphous slipperiness than 'Political Correctness' ever did I think. I'm sure PC was blurred around the edges a lot of the time but it was primarily considered about the use of particular language, and if you asked someone moaning about it to define it they'd have done so in those terms, more or less. 'Woke' is that but with anything else that seems a bit modern/left wing/ethnic minority friendly chucked in. I think that's a big part of why it's become more prominent - there's seemingly no need to define it or defend anything specific.

 

[8ball]

I think it's mostly been more successful because it's just the one syllable. Something you can just bark out as a purely emotional response before the intellect has time to get a handle on it.

One syllable less than racist, certainly.
Doesn’t leave the left much wiggle room for counter-attack.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Are you sure?

Yep. We now live in Wokistan.

 

[The39thStep]

And Birmingham banning Christmas.

Ba baa black sheep cancelled as well

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

One syllable less than racist, certainly.
Doesn’t leave the left much wiggle room for counter-attack.