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Global financial system implosion begins

Yer.

And then AIG fuckin' insured it, after "selling" it to the ratings agencies through paying huge fees.


:rolleyes:


Whatalotabollacks.


Woof

The same c***s who as soon as 2009, were telling us that if we did not behave as they wanted, would impoverish us.

A leading credit rating agency has revised down its outlook for the UK economy due to concerns about its significant debt burden.

Standard and Poor's downgraded its view of the UK to "negative" from "stable" for the first time since it started analysing its public finances in 1978.

The revision sent the pound lower, reversing recent gains. One pound fell back three cents against the dollar after the S&P statement, to $1.5514 from $1.5817.

Blow to UK

Standard and Poor's did not change the UK's triple-A rating, but said it was at risk without a credible plan to put its debts on a "secure downward trajectory" by the next government.

If the credit rating was downgraded, it could lead to higher borrowing costs if it makes international investors less likely to buy Treasury bonds.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8061019.stm

With their track record!
 
Fuck off with yer "administrative labour" bollocks you know-nothing twat.

that graph is as dodgy as they come,

apologies, but then I also find it fairly rude when someone doesn't respond after another poster points out that a graph they've posted up is an obviously biased graph

I'll say it once more, then I won't say it again: I am not interested in debating whether there is or isn't a culture of chronic welfare dependence in the UK. I believe there is---14% of the working age population get unemployment benefit. If you don't, then that's OK---life goes on.

I could go on and you may disagree but its not relevant to my main point: the system in its present form is dead, whether you believe we are chronically dependent on it or not.
 
From BBC's Paul Mason:

"Has anybody modelled what a Krakatoa-scale eruption would do to modern air transport? I've seen first hand in New Orleans how fragile a hi-tech society is faced with a natural catastrophe. I don't think even now we've understood the true lessons of Katrina: that societies reliant on high technology and high development collapse really fast in the face of an overwhelming catastrophe. One reason for this is the "just in time" and optimisation culture we've created to use capacity to its maximum... Katrina made us understand how rapidly modern society disintegrates. This ash cloud is, already, making us appreciate how reliant we are on air freight and air travel.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/paulmason/2010/04/volcano_cloud_glimpse_of_a_pos.html
 

I was just thinking that the disruption to life and "business as usual" caused by this volcano gives us a glimpse of what's in store when transportation fuel becomes scarce / too expensive to afford.

I was about to post a comment to this effect, but see that the mind-readers at the Beeb have done so already.

:eek:

ETA:
Also spotted this piece by Guy McPherson, who notes, amongst other things, the divergence between what the mainstream media say about the "recovery" and what's happening in the real world. He goes on to summarise the situation thus:
In short, civilization is only a few days removed from chaos or, if you’re an optimist like me, from anarchy. This has always been the case, for every failed civilization as well as the one left standing. With every passing day, we move further into ecological overshoot and also closer to the end of western civilization and its apex, the industrial economy
 
Yeah, the whole peak oil thing is interesting. It's definitely the elephant in the room that few mention. Doesn't get a great deal of mention in the mass media, which is very revealing in itself in terms of it's fundamental seriousness. It's a throwback to the days of WWII censorship. The nanny state, Auntie Beeb and a compliant mass media tends never to mention stuff that will alarm too much what they see as 'the masses'. When they do eventually mention the more complex stuff, they tend to ease and sweet talk people into understanding it and buying into it.

To be honest I can't help thinking that certain corridors of power would be only to happy to see the wings of the airline industry clipped a little to ease peak oil economic pressures in this country. Maybe the current "crisis" presents the ideal excuse? Would a reduction, particularly in short haul budget flights, make much of a difference? Maybe I'm wrong, but I guess if demand for airline oil (is it still 'kerosene' they use?) is reduced by eliminating some flights, then the supply, and thus the cost of kerosene, and even crude itself is kept more affordable for the flight routes, like long haul, that remain.

The dawn of the new millennium has truly become the era of the albatross, or to use a more up to date analogy, Taleb's 'Black Swan', with a regular appearance of them ever since. Welcome to the age of uncertainty. I remember the New Economics Foundation released an interesting article not long ago titled 'Nine Meals from Anarchy' (which is slightly more optimistic than certain echelons of the UK apparatus who believe the state to be only ever 3 meals from anarchy).

Given 25% of British freight - which includes a sizable chunk of food supplies - is brought in by airlines, it might better be said that the country is but a clutch of cancelled flights from anarchy. But anarchy isn't really in the British national character. The British bulldog spirit tends to cope with adversity, through camaraderie, queuing and good humour, even a good old knees up. It seems to be more of a problem for hot headed foreign countries.
 
Doesn't get a great deal of mention in the mass media

Société Générale tells clients how to prepare for potential 'global collapse'
The underlying debt burden is greater than it was after the Second World War, when nominal levels looked similar. Ageing populations will make it harder to erode debt through growth. "High public debt looks entirely unsustainable in the long run. We have almost reached a point of no return for government debt," it said.
-- Telegraph, 18 Nov 2009 (link)
.
 
Basically, It's Over A parable about how one nation came to financial ruin.

Chales Munger is Warren Buffett's partner, so can be reliably thought of as having an insight into how the financial system works. Here is his transparent parable of the US economy, writing in Slate.

As Adam Smith would have expected, GDP per person grew steadily. Indeed, in the modern area it grew in real terms at 3 percent per year, decade after decade, until Basicland led the world in GDP per person. As this happened, taxes on sales, income, property, and payrolls were introduced. Eventually total taxes, matched by total government expenditures, amounted to 35 percent of GDP. The revenue from increased taxes was spent on more government-run education and a substantial government-run social safety net, including medical care and pensions.

A regular increase in such tax-financed government spending, under systems hard to "game" by the unworthy, was considered a moral imperative—a sort of egality-promoting national dividend—so long as growth of such spending was kept well below the growth rate of the country's GDP per person.

That emphasised line is the rule we started breaking 30 years ago. We didn't realise it because we were spending future money in the form of pension entitlements, and a health system programmed through demographics for massive cost inflation.

(link)
 
I have a friend from Germany who says that he thinks that the German people will probably riot in the streets in a few months time.
 
I have a friend from Germany who says that he thinks that the German people will probably riot in the streets in a few months time.

I've no doubt that if the Germans are going to riot, they would indeed plan it several months ahead, and do a thorough job of it!

I bet your friend could inform us of the exact date and location of ze riot...

Giles..
 
The Germans are good at rioting. At least they used to be in the 70s/80s.
Aye:
On May 1, 2009, major protests and riots broke out in Germany, Greece, Turkey, France and Austria, fuelled by economic tensions:

Police in Berlin arrested 57 people while around 50 officers were hurt as young demonstrators threw bottles and rocks and set fire to cars and rubbish bins. There were also clashes in Hamburg, where anti-capitalist protesters attacked a bank
link
 
"Police in Berlin arrested 57 people while around 50 officers were hurt as young demonstrators threw bottles and rocks and set fire to cars and rubbish bins."

Er. . . that's called the May Day Riot. Happens every year. Starts 13.30 prompt in Kreuzberg (or did when I lived there).
 
Yeah it's pretty mild compared to what used to happen in the 80s.

Just a smaller example, I remember one demo where it sounded like it was raining because stones were hitting the police vans like rain hitting the pavement.
 
Bloomberg are reporting this morning on the impacts of the grounded flights on jet fuel demand in Europe. It's down 2/3rds. Interestingly, kerosene can't be stored for a long time (what happens to it if you do, it doesn't say) but intriguingly it can be rescued by re-blending into diesel.

Perhaps just in the same way the financial crash of Autumn 2008 brought down skyrocketing crude oil prices, maybe this act of nature and NATS will have the benefit of at least delaying the ravages of peak oil economics, crude prices soaring again and forestall a new economic collapse?

European Jet Fuel Demand ‘Evaporates,’ Prices Drop due to Volcano Disruption
Bloomberg, 20 April 2010

"Jet fuel consumption in Europe has fallen by about two-thirds as flights in the region were halted after last week’s volcanic eruption, pushing down prices and disrupting deliveries..Europe typically uses as much as 1.2 million barrels a day of jet fuel and is losing about 700,000 barrels a day of demand in the current disruption, according to Deutsche Bank. ..London’s Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted airports account for 90 percent of the overall consumption of the fuel in the U.K..."If this goes on, whole cargoes could be lost" [Tony] Astor [of Astor Consulting] said...Jet fuel can’t be stored for a long time and refiners may start blending excess supply back into stocks of others fuels like diesel and gasoil...One barrel of crude typically produces between 7 percent and 10 percent jet fuel, according to BNP Paribas."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aWGb6qxYaUYA
 
Interestingly, kerosene can't be stored for a long time (what happens to it if you do, it doesn't say) but intriguingly it can be rescued by re-blending into diesel
That's weird. We used to have kerosene-fired central heating and that fuel would be stored for months and months. Probably just hype from oil companies worried about their cash flow...
:rolleyes:
 
Perhaps just in the same way the financial crash of Autumn 2008 brought down skyrocketing crude oil prices, maybe this act of nature and NATS will have the benefit of at least delaying the ravages of peak oil economics, crude prices soaring again and forestall a new economic collapse?

I doubt its significant enough in the grand scheme of things to delay things much.
 
I see the IMF has asked for a tax on banks to cover default

Teh banks wont like it, but many other significant commercial groups have default reserves to cover the failure of one of their members

Obv. not in the magnitude of big bank failure tho'
 
"Police in Berlin arrested 57 people while around 50 officers were hurt as young demonstrators threw bottles and rocks and set fire to cars and rubbish bins."

Er. . . that's called the May Day Riot. Happens every year. Starts 13.30 prompt in Kreuzberg (or did when I lived there).

It's even in the Time Our guide to Berlin as an annual festival!
 
That's weird. We used to have kerosene-fired central heating and that fuel would be stored for months and months. Probably just hype from oil companies worried about their cash flow...
:rolleyes:

Jet Fuel is a much higher spec than heating Kerosine, for example trace water might be acceptable for heating but at 30,000 feet any trace water can freeze and create ice crystals.

Maybe they mean the jet fuel would degrade from jet A-1 purity to a normal heating oil/diesel
 
I doubt its significant enough in the grand scheme of things to delay things much.

No probably not. But listen to some of the interviews on the news with passengers that have managed to get back safely or close to home.

The harrowing stories of the privations people have suffered while they were abandoned by their airlines and travel companies (who had a legal and contractual duty to repatriate them by other means and provide accomodation and food) have probably put off a sizable number of foreign travel for life.

Amid the chaos, story after story of people appallingly abandoned by their travel companies. People sleeping out in the street. Hotels demanding guests unable to fly home check out or pay extra for their stay. Car hire companies exploiting the crisis and charging people thousands of Euros for hires that would normally cost 90. People sleeping in the back of trucks, reduced to sneaking back into Britain on ferries normally restricted to just cargo.

British people who have paid good, hard earned money for a well deserved holiday abroad, reduced to a refugee-like state, trying to get back home to their own country.

And this is only just beginning. With the backlog, and trying to locate everyone it will take weeks to get everyone back, some may end up having been stranded for several weeks.

Businesses are all to quick to take peoples money, but when a crisis strikes, the portcullis goes up. This is always a false economy. Faced with a crisis or an unhappy customer, you should always overwhelm a customer with help and kindness.

When customers needed assistance they found "there was no room at the inn". When things get back to normal, the guilty airliners and travel companies will find customers "have no room for them".

Plus, there are vast armies of solicitors up and down the country (many of them stuggling for business during the recession) ready and willing to represent passengers seeking compensation and redress for the miseries they have suffered, at the hands of the airliners and travel companies.

The financial troubles of the airline industry and the travel companies, and thus a probably more or less permanent and decline in the UK jet oil market, are only just beginning.
 
No probably not. But listen to some of the interviews on the news with passengers that have managed to get back safely or close to home.

The harrowing stories of the privations people have suffered while they were abandoned by their airlines and travel companies (who had a legal and contractual duty to repatriate them by other means and provide accomodation and food) have probably put off a sizable number of foreign travel for life.

Amid the chaos, story after story of people appallingly abandoned by their travel companies. People sleeping out in the street. Hotels demanding guests unable to fly home check out or pay extra for their stay. Car hire companies exploiting the crisis and charging people thousands of Euros for hires that would normally cost 90. People sleeping in the back of trucks, reduced to sneaking back into Britain on ferries normally restricted to just cargo.

British people who have paid good, hard earned money for a well deserved holiday abroad, reduced to a refugee-like state, trying to get back home to their own country.

And this is only just beginning. With the backlog, and trying to locate everyone it will take weeks to get everyone back, some may end up having been stranded for several weeks.

Businesses are all to quick to take peoples money, but when a crisis strikes, the portcullis goes up. This is always a false economy. Faced with a crisis or an unhappy customer, you should always overwhelm a customer with help and kindness.

When customers needed assistance they found "there was no room at the inn". When things get back to normal, the guilty airliners and travel companies will find customers "have no room for them".

Plus, there are vast armies of solicitors up and down the country (many of them stuggling for business during the recession) ready and willing to represent passengers seeking compensation and redress for the miseries they have suffered, at the hands of the airliners and travel companies.

The financial troubles of the airline industry and the travel companies, and thus a probably more or less permanent and decline in the UK jet oil market, are only just beginning.

To what extent are the airlines or travel companues responsible or "to blame" for this, though? They have been prevented from flying by government authority. They are also losing millions of pounds ach day this continues.

What has happened here has been a classic "Act of God" compounded by over-cautious officialdom.

In a situation like this, of course people are going to suffer inconvenience, have problems getting anywhere, etc etc.

There really isn't anyone to blame or sue here, unless you can sue God?!

If you have paid for 2 weeks in a hotel and flights both ways, then something like this happens, why should the travel agent have to fork out for another week's accommodation as opposed to the traveller? It is neither of their fault. They have provided the service as contracted in terms of accommodation, and will presumably provide a flight as soon as they are allowed to do so.

I don't think that "privation" suffered by people has been that bad, in comparison with what people put up with in much of the world. If I'd been stuck abroad, I would have found a cheap hotel somewhere, maybe Googled for a B & B or something, then kicked back in the bar and waited for it to literally) blow over....

And I'll bet when this is all over, people don't turn away from Easyjet, Ryanair, BA or anyone else in any significant numbers at all.

Giles..
 
To what extent are the airlines or travel companues responsible or "to blame" for this, though? They have been prevented from flying by government authority. They are also losing millions of pounds ach day this continues.

A coalition of government and various quangos like the Met Office and NATS acting in unity to suspend flights on safety grounds, and airlines and travel companies not fulfilling their contractual and legal obligations to find alternative accommodation until the crisis passed, are two separate issues.

Listen to the harrowing stories on the news of how families saw £500 holidays turned into £5000 nightmares because the airlines and travel companies abandoned them. People and their families being told they would have to vacate their hotel rooms and sleep on the beach until flights were restored. Folk making trips at their own expense half way across the world by any other means they can find, because their airliner/travel companies reneged on their responsibilities to arrange alternative transportation and/or food and accommodation.

Remember, that is their LEGAL responsibility under the contracts they signed with their customers. If a flight is cancelled, for whatever reason, they are required to make alternative arrangements to fulfil the terms of the contract. They are businesses providing services and goods for cash money. If they can't provide what they have offered, whether it be due to a small local difficulty or a regional, continental or global natural causes/meteorological phenomenon, then it is their responsibility to 1) provide alternatives at no extra cost and 2) compensate their customers for the inconvenience.

If the airliners and travel companies do not have adequate contingency plans in place to convey passengers from a to b, when the normal mode of transportation falls through, then that is something they will need to urgently address.

It was the airline and travel companies’ responsibility to ensure all of these things. The holidays, travel contracts were purchased from them, not the government and it was their responsibility to deliver and fulfil their contracts. The government, NATS, the Met Office aren't in the holiday and travel business. It doesn't own British Airways or any of the airline or travel businesses affected.

Personally, I am of the opinion - one shared by countless others - that there was a lack of scientific preparedness, contingency planning and an element of over-reaction as a result of it on the part of the government. A blanket ban for the first 24 hours or so, I would say was essential. But scientific analysis and investigation should have been much quicker in determining where the ash cloud was less concentrated, at what altitudes it was prevalent at etc in order to ensure a quick, phased re-opening of the skies.

The airline industry themselves should have carried out tests well, well in advance to determine whether there was a 'safe level' of atmospheric volcanic ash levels in which it was safe to fly, not waited until one blew to find out. After all, Iceland is one of the most volcanically active islands on the planet. It's in all the British and European airlines backyards. It's been known about for centuries, it's no big secret!

Clearly, it’s been a first in the modern era of mass airline travel in Britain that's taken people by surprise; what do you do when a volcano erupts near your country?

But they remain separate issues. Any lack of preparedness, the whole steep learning curve, government and other agencies found themselves in, does not absolve airliners and travel companies from responsibility for leaving passengers in the lurch, leaving passengers out in the cold, hungry and homeless in a foreign land, when their flights were grounded.

To describe it has sharp practice, doesn't do such business/consumer treachery justice. Not only is such treatment of customers highly deplorable, the lowest of the low, in the highly competitive modern business world of today, it is sheer business suicide.

Time will tell whether sizable numbers of passengers stop travelling abroad and holiday at home. That process - the staycation - was already starting due to the recession. Personally - like most people - I do not trade with any business that fails to deliver (that's called throwing good money after bad), I boycott them completely and take my business elsewhere.

Customer feedback, focus groups, inane and pointless complaints processes that go unacted upon are all just a bunch of phooey. The only message businesses understands - and listen to - is when customers and money start disappearing out the door.

Only when they clean up their act do I consider using them again.
 
A coalition of government and various quangos like the Met Office and NATS acting in unity to suspend flights on safety grounds, and airlines and travel companies not fulfilling their contractual and legal obligations to find alternative accommodation until the crisis passed, are two separate issues.

Listen to the harrowing stories on the news of how families saw £500 holidays turned into £5000 nightmares because the airlines and travel companies abandoned them. People and their families being told they would have to vacate their hotel rooms and sleep on the beach until flights were restored. Folk making trips at their own expense half way across the world by any other means they can find, because their airliner/travel companies reneged on their responsibilities to arrange alternative transportation and/or food and accommodation.

Remember, that is their LEGAL responsibility under the contracts they signed with their customers. If a flight is cancelled, for whatever reason, they are required to make alternative arrangements to fulfil the terms of the contract. They are businesses providing services and goods for cash money. If they can't provide what they have offered, whether it be due to a small local difficulty or a regional, continental or global natural causes/meteorological phenomenon, then it is their responsibility to 1) provide alternatives at no extra cost and 2) compensate their customers for the inconvenience.

If the airliners and travel companies do not have adequate contingency plans in place to convey passengers from a to b, when the normal mode of transportation falls through, then that is something they will need to urgently address.

It was the airline and travel companies’ responsibility to ensure all of these things. The holidays, travel contracts were purchased from them, not the government and it was there responsibility to deliver and fulfil their contracts.

Personally, I am of the opinion - one shared by countless others - that there was a lack of scientific preparedness, contingency planning and an element of over-reaction as a result of it on the part of the government. A blanket ban for the first 24 hours or so, I would say was essential. But scientific analysis and investigation should have been much quicker in determining where the ash cloud was less concentrated, at what altitudes it was prevalent at etc in order to ensure a quick, phased re-opening of the skies.

Clearly, it’s been a first in the modern era of mass airline travel in Britain that's taken people by surprise; what do you do when a volcano erupts near your country?

But they remain separate issues. Any lack of preparedness, the whole steep learning curve, government and other agencies found themselves in, does not absolve airliners and travel companies from responsibility for leaving passengers in the lurch, leaving passengers out in the cold, hungry and homeless in a foreign land, when their flights were grounded.

To describe it has sharp practice, doesn't do it such treachery justice. Not only is such treatment of customers highly deplorable, the lowest of the low, in the highly competitive modern business world of today, it is sheer business suicide.

I am not convinced that airlines have some absolute responsibility to get people from A to B by other means, regardless of the cost, if they are told that they cannot fly their planes for a few days.

If I was running an airline, I would not offer such a guarantee, because if I did, then one incident like this would probably bankrupt my business! That really would be "business suicide" as you put it.

It's called "force majeure" and most contracts include this term somewhere, which pretty much means if some major and unexpected event occurs that utterly changed the whole game, and which is neither parties's fault, then they cannot be forced to honour any contract.

Does anyone actually know to what extent people can claim money off either airlines or travel operators in situations like this?

Airlines may give out food vouchers and stuff, but are they going to have to pay for people's £1500 taxis, hotel costs, ferry tickets etc?

I don't think they are, but I don't know for sure.

Giles..
 
The moral of this story would seem to be:

1. Shit happens

2. Don't go on holiday without access to a fair bit of spare cash to get yourself out of the shit if it does happen.

Giles..
 
China's getting more interesting.


The govt. has raised downpayments for first time residential buyers (max' 70% mortgage) and for 2nd homes (50%) and third homes are being virtually squeezed out of the mortgage market.

Given that 80% of purchases are mortgage free in the major cities, though.......it remains doubtful that speculation will subside immediately.

It's seems that the Central govt. has suddenly woken up and realises that if it doesn't act, the bubble is going to inflate massively (already 100% increases in the right areas of major centres in last 15 months) and then explode the whole economy.

Peeps are beginning to default in Beijing, Shanghai and Shenzen; walking away from GBP 5,000 booking deposits, much of the talk is waiting for a 20% correction - and talk is rife.


Difficult to say where it goes from here. A correction of 10% - 15% is imminent in my view, but this may be seen as a buying opportunity by many and the market may yet HUMPH itself into a frothy 100% rise in the remainder of this year.

The govt. wants to correct by 20% and stabilise, but may end up killing the beast completely later in the year when the current efforts merely fuel an inrush as prices dip.

I reckon that there will be a property crash late this year, with peeps who bought in the first quarter (in the frothy markets,) suffering 50%+ losses by end of 2011.

In some ways, the good news is that the govt. can easily afford to bail out the banking system, which it will, (again :rolleyes: ). This time it'll likely cost the taxpayer an additional US$ 300 - 400 billion, perhaps as much as a trillion if prices continue upwards for more than another few months.

I've mentioned Tom Holland as a commentator before (in the SCMP).

I've been following an independent economist called Andy Xie over the last couple of years. He's been making shrill noises recently (one particular piece last week about this issue,) and it's not his usually measured, strategic tone.

And I agree with him, if the govt. can't clamp down now (it's already too late really - much damage will be done through a "popping" right now,) then it will completely implode in the near future.

This is not subprime, it's a pure speculative bubble and what goes up will come down.

How high it goes before the crash will determine the depth of the pain to follow. At least China has no real, external, debt to speak of and enough dosh in the bank to ward of the worst of the coming mess.

Once again, however, this will delay putting more money into the hands of the masses and improving healthcare, education, welfare, pensions, etc..


Times will be harsh for many - likely myself included.


Let's see.

We are living in interesting times.




Woof
 
It's even in the Time Our guide to Berlin as an annual festival!
LOL.

I'd guess (hope) that's actually the Maifest, a nice family friendly all day party, which in the evening ends up with people attacking the police.
 
Interestingly, kerosene can't be stored for a long time (what happens to it if you do, it doesn't say) but intriguingly it can be rescued by re-blending into diesel.
Fuel is hygroscopic and absorbs water from the air. The 777 crash at Heathrow in 2008 was caused by water contamination of the fuel in Beijing which formed ice crystals during the descent into Heathrow and blocked the fuel lines to the engine.

It's pretty symbolic: keeping fuel water free is just one of thousands of processes which depend on a complex operational fabric that we take totally for granted, the failure of which would be catastrophic. Yet we take our kids in aluminium tubes and propel them at 30,000 feet to strange places, then get sad when once every 100,000,000 flying hours or so we get a reminder of what a peculiar, fragile thing aviation is.

Once you start to try and imagine how you maintain fuel QC procedures as the global economy starts to wind down, and imagine more and more 2008 heathrow crashes, you start to understand just how precarious this global economy of ours is and how quickly it could just unwind.

Meanwhile, that's not going to be a problem for some airlines, because they won't be around by the of the year---it is now such a marginal business that a week's disruption is all it takes to kill them.
 
Once you start to try and imagine how you maintain fuel QC procedures as the global economy starts to wind down, and imagine more and more 2008 heathrow crashes, you start to understand just how precarious this global economy of ours is and how quickly it could just unwind.

I do not imagine that a gradual decline of the global economy will suddenly lead to worse fuel standards for airplanes and lots of crashes. A long period of economic woe would eventually take its toll on aircraft maintenance etc I suppose, but it hardly strikes me as an example of a quick unwinding.

I have a far easier time imagining people gradually being priced out of flying.
 
I am not convinced that airlines have some absolute responsibility to get people from A to B by other means, regardless of the cost, if they are told that they cannot fly their planes for a few days.

Here and there on the news over the past few days they have held interviews with people who are experts in interpreting consumer law - consumers rights body people, folk from Which? etc.

They have all categorically stated - no ifs, no buts - that if a customer's contracted flight is delayed for whatever reason airliners/travel operators have to provide alternative accomodation and food commensurate with that delay. Airliners and tour operators can not refuse to do so or refuse to compensate. That is a breach of the law. If they don't provide it, and a customer ends up shelling out themselves, then they have to compensate a customer to full value of whatever they have spent. Whatever the terms and conditions of sale says, that's the law. It's called European Directive 261 or something.

And there is no limit to it, so if the only accomodation a customer could find was in a 5 star hotel at a grand a night, they have to stump up, which gives airlines/travel companies a clear economic incentive to provide the accomodation themselves or repatriate the customer by some other means.

If the airliner or travel company management don't know how to run their businesses properly and don't like the law, one possible solution would be to sign the businesses over to the workers and workers co-operatives.

This would also stem the tide of the redundancies within the industry.

I'm sure such workers co-operatives would be more than happy to ensure customers are well looked after, as well as ensuring the profits from the businesses are shared out properly amongst the people that do the actual hard work, day in day out at the coal face of the business - cabin crew, engineers, pilots etc.

I realise the chances of such a thing happening are remote of course, given the ideological top down hiearchical dogma that often exists in business leviathans. As history has shown, if such businesses fail or are in danger of doing so, they much prefer selfishly moth-balling their infrastructure so nobody else can use it or benefit from it, until they rust and crumble.

If you don't look after customers, your business is finished. The customer is king, or at least should be treated as such. Plus if you develop a reputation for sharp practice and this spreads then on a wider scale your actually damaging the wider economy. People stop spending when they get treated appallingly by businesses and their consumer rights and protections aren't observed or enforced.

I believe I am correct in saying that this is the first time in recorded history that commercial airliners and travel companies have suffered such a large scale closure of flight space, lasting nearly a week.

For the oldest of the businesses, that's literally decades they've had to save and build up their reserves in self-insurance for such a rainy day, or in this instance, an ashy week! If they don't have sufficient reserves because they've been distributing them to shareholders and fat cats at the top for decades, that is hardly the passengers fault. They shouldn't have to pay for the airliners and travel companies financial practices and lack of foresight.
 
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