Give me a reason not to embrace the far-right

[mojo pixy]

Imagine a scenario: you're an artist or maybe performer, a comedian or writer or something of that kind. You create fresh 'content' all the time, new bits or pieces or productions that express what's on your mind. You have a small fanbase but not enough to make a living from, so you do some kind of waged work to keep your life the shape you want it to be. But you're unsatisfied; you feel you have the potential to make a living from your own creativity if only you could reach a wider audience.

Then you meet someone who is a member of what they call a 'political social club', asking for some creative work to promote their cause. They talk about built-in audience, algorithms, global reach, they mention numbers.

You salivate. You think about going full-time, giving up the drudge. Interviews, travel, attention. Glory.

But then you think, could I? What about what I believe? Does that matter? Who cares?

To be clear: you're not tempted. But should you be? Are you wasting a huge opportunity?

 

[Pickman's model]

Headlice

 

[a_chap]

Imagine a scenario: you're an artist or maybe performer, a comedian or writer or something of that kind. You create fresh 'content' all the time, new bits or pieces or productions that express what's on your mind. You have a small fanbase but not enough to make a living from, so you do some kind of waged work to keep your life the shape you want it to be. But you're unsatisfied; you feel you have the potential to make a living from your own creativity if only you could reach a wider audience.

Then you meet someone who is

I can imagine that scenario.

I'd still tell the far-right cunt s/he was a cunt and have nothing to do with them.

What's your point, caller?

 

[mojo pixy]

No point, it's a question. Let's say you needed to set aside some scruples (and we all do, every day to some extent or another, and manage to forgive ourselves) in order to achieve your dream of living from your own creativity.

To be clear: I said 'err no thanks' when the encounter this is based on happened. But the question is, was that correct, and would anyone do otherwise, and why?



And I'm not sure how there ended up being a duplicate thread but since it's been up ten mins now I guess I'll have to run with what I've got.

 

[bellaozzydog]

I’d rather push angry wasps up my arsehole

 

[emanymton]

Imagine a scenario: you're an artist or maybe performer, a comedian or writer or something of that kind. You create fresh 'content' all the time, new bits or pieces or productions that express what's on your mind. You have a small fanbase but not enough to make a living from, so you do some kind of waged work to keep your life the shape you want it to be. But you're unsatisfied; you feel you have the potential to make a living from your own creativity if only you could reach a wider audience.

Then you meet someone who is a member of what they call a 'political social club', asking for some creative work to promote their cause. They talk about built-in audience, algorithms, global reach, they mention numbers.

You salivate. You think about going full-time, giving up the drudge. Interviews, travel, attention. Glory.

But then you think, could I? What about what I believe? Does that matter? Who cares?

To be clear: you're not tempted. But should you be? Are you wasting a huge opportunity?

Have you seen what passes for far right comedy and art?

 

[mojo pixy]

Have you seen what passes for far right comedy and art?

No I haven't, not recently anyway.

 

[krtek a houby]

I’d rather push angry wasps up my arsehole

farmerbarleymow

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Was it Tommy?

 

[mojo pixy]

Was it Tommy?

It was not. It was someone who seemed quite 'normal' till the whole conversation turned surprising.

 

[frogwoman]

Dont think so tbh. From a purely selfish pov the far right are notorious for very public feuds and you could easily end up falling victim to a scam or worse.

 

[agricola]

No point, it's a question. Let's say you needed to set aside some scruples (and we all do, every day to some extent or another, and manage to forgive ourselves) in order to achieve your dream of living from your own creativity.

To be clear: I said 'err no thanks' when the encounter this is based on happened. But the question is, was that correct, and would anyone do otherwise, and why?



And I'm not sure how there ended up being a duplicate thread but since it's been up ten mins now I guess I'll have to run with what I've got.

How would it be "living from your own creativity", though?

You would basically be required to play a role in their game - I used to be a.... / I am a.... but now I think the far right are correct type behaviour. Some degree of apparently independent thought would be encouraged but there would be some issues where you would be required to say and do certain things (pro-Trump, pro-Israel and anti-migration being the most obvious, their specific interpretation of Brexit as well).

 

[Orang Utan]

If you did it, they’d only diddle you out of the fee.
Tell you they don’t have the budget, and they thought you’d do it for free for the exposure

 

[mojo pixy]

How would it be "living from your own creativity", though?

You would basically be required to play a role in their game - I used to be a.... / I am a.... but now I think the far right are correct type behaviour. Some degree of apparently independent thought would be encouraged but there would be some issues where you would be required to say and do certain things (pro-Trump, pro-Israel and anti-migration being the most obvious, their specific interpretation of Brexit as well).

The thing is, these days, who cares? There's always someone worse, someone more extreme or idiotic. Wouldn't the new dopamine highs of sudden success take the sting out of any sense of hypocrisy? 'Selling out' is a common aspiration and has been for ages, and after all you can create what you want but as an artist if nobody's buying then what's the use? If you could reinvent yourself as a true convert and your work as a sudden realisation of the truth, losing a dozen fans and gaining a thousand might feel great.

Plus as an artist, you get some leeway for crazy ideas among your in-group, as long as you don't turn coat entirely.

 

[hitmouse]

The thing is, these days, who cares? There's always someone worse, someone more extreme or idiotic. Wouldn't the new dopamine highs of sudden success take the sting out of any sense of hypocrisy? 'Selling out' is a common aspiration and has been for ages, and after all you can create what you want but as an artist if nobody's buying then what's the use?

The point is surely that you get to create what you want, not what someone else/the market/the algorithm is telling you?

 

[mojo pixy]

The point is surely that you get to create what you want, not what someone else/the market/the algorithm is telling you?

You might wish to, but in 2024 I don't imagine there's any kind of success for anyone creative, that doesn't depend on some algorithm or another.

 

[frogwoman]

But you know lots of Jewish people, LGBT people etc. Wouldn't you feel guilty about promoting views that could directly harm them? Some people probably wouldn't but I'd feel a bit bad tbh.

Also, not just the far right but any sort of 'politics influencer' is taking a huge gamble on what sort of views are going to be popular, what's going to attract engagement etc. There are people who posted about a free palestine on insta not because they agreed but because they thought they'd get loads more engagement for it and then ended up being 'cancelled' by media companies etc.

 

[frogwoman]

The thing is, these days, who cares? There's always someone worse, someone more extreme or idiotic. Wouldn't the new dopamine highs of sudden success take the sting out of any sense of hypocrisy? 'Selling out' is a common aspiration and has been for ages, and after all you can create what you want but as an artist if nobody's buying then what's the use? If you could reinvent yourself as a true convert and your work as a sudden realisation of the truth, losing a dozen fans and gaining a thousand might feel great.

Plus as an artist, you get some leeway for crazy ideas among your in-group, as long as you don't turn coat entirely.

Selling out was traditionally about getting rich though rather than changing your beliefs. Even staunchly left wing bands were accused of selling out after getting a degree of success. I know there are the usual arguments about class etc but I don't think it's exactly the same thing.

 

[mojo pixy]

But you know lots of Jewish people, LGBT people etc. Wouldn't you feel guilty about promoting views that could directly harm them?

Personally, yes. However I can see another me (or just another person entirely) who manages to set that aside, either by honestly changing their views or simply by managing their cognitive dissonance. For better or worse I find that idea fascinating.

Selling out was traditionally about getting rich though rather than changing your beliefs. Even staunchly left wing bands were accused of selling out after getting a degree of success. I know there are the usual arguments about class etc but I don't think it's exactly the same thing.

I think these days doing things you might previously have disapproved of in order to make money or get some fame, isn't seen widely as the moral crime it might once have been. However, from the other side I do think there's a hard core on the right who would never accept an arrivist like this anyway.

 

[frogwoman]

Personally, yes. However I can see another me (or just another person entirely) who manages to set that aside, either by honestly changing their views or simply by managing their cognitive dissonance. For better or worse I find that idea fascinating.



I think these days doing things you might previously have disapproved of in order to make money or get some fame, isn't seen widely as the moral crime it might once have been. However, from the other side I do think there's a hard core on the right who would never accept an arrivist like this anyway.

Selling out was always seen as more of an aesthetic thing in order to retain fans and get more money though. Like changing their style to sound more 'poppy' or just doing more of the same and not being 'innovative'. Some hard-core fans saw it as wrong but there were plenty of people who saw the idea as ridiculous all along though I think. I don't think it's the same as changing your views from left wing to right wing - back in the day when 'selling out' was more of a thing right wingers didn't get a lot more money anyway.

 

[kabbes]

There’s a terrible incongruity that comes with living a life that is in contradiction to your beliefs. There are only a few possible outcomes from that incongruity. Most commonly, an individual will simply give themselves to the new set of norms that are prevalent in their new milieu. They become the thing that they do. Other possible paths include terrible depression and anxiety as they try daily to resolve the incompatibility. There may also be an unconscious self-sabotage arising from self-hate.

Basically, I wouldn’t recommend it, no.

 

[Rob Ray]

The obvious one is the unmentioned lock-in that is likely to occur - left-wingers seeing that on your resume are less likely to hire you, leftie fans/friends will likely abandon ship or go hostile, meaning you then end up increasingly working only for the far-right, with everything that implies. Not a lifestyle and set of mates I'd happily embrace even if it came with a few extra quid tbh.

 

[mojo pixy]

Selling out was always seen as more of an aesthetic thing in order to retain fans and get more money though. Like changing their style to sound more 'poppy' or just doing more of the same and not being 'innovative'. Some hard-core fans saw it as wrong but there were plenty of people who saw the idea as ridiculous all along though I think. I don't think it's the same as changing your views from left wing to right wing - back in the day when 'selling out' was more of a thing right wingers didn't get a lot more money anyway.

No I know what you mean but I'm using 'selling out' with a wider meaning, essentially making any change to your artistic output which is primarily for reasons of popularity or sales, instead of because it better serves the artistic vision. But it's a grey area with plenty of scope for deniability.

 

[A380]

You could make a career of pandering to far right stereotypes punching down and claim that actually you were mocking them all along. But Waren Mitchell’s estate might sue you for copyright infringement…

 

[frogwoman]

Problem is the more influential the fash are the more we're going to see them in government or in some sort of governing coalition in the coming years in a number of European countries. unless they're going to pull any enabling act type stuff there's a good chance they're going to end up being booted out by the voters in multiple countries and anyone who's embraced them as part of their content will end up looking embarrassing at best. Kind of like blair with the 'cool britannia' thing except that once you've worked with the fash it's likely people in previous circles might not trust you at all.

 

[mojo pixy]

The obvious one is the unmentioned lock-in that is likely to occur - left-wingers seeing that on your resume are less likely to hire you, leftie fans/friends will likely abandon ship or go hostile, meaning you then end up increasingly working only for the far-right, with everything that implies.

This is one of the biggest objections to the idea. No going back when you inevitably regret your decision.

 

[savoloysam]

Your conscience

 

[mojo pixy]

Your consciousness.

Consciousness, or conscience?

Of course both, potentially, but 'conscience' to me would be like the top answer to this question in family fortunes.

Our survey said....

 

[savoloysam]

Consciousness, or conscience?

Of course both, potentially, but 'conscience' to me is like the top answer in family fortunes.

Our survey said....

Yea that one

 

[hitmouse]

You might wish to, but in 2024 I don't imagine there's any kind of success for anyone creative, that doesn't depend on some algorithm or another.

Depends how you're defining success, surely. It's a tautology to say that success on the algorithm's terms depends on the algorithm, but if you create something you like, that's a success on your terms.