Germany v Argentina (Final) Sunday 13th July 2014

[Favelado]

He made them really good. Since "El Diego" left Naples, the club has spent much of its time in Serie B and has gone without a trophy.Indeed, it had one or two good players (Ferrara, Bagni etc) but as they say themselves, he made them a really good team and they won Serie A during its Golden era. They've never had a period like that in their history, before or after (hence the Newcastle comparison) whether Messi has always played for Barcelona and entered the side already the best in the league and Champions League winners the next season. Again, the comparison is laughable.

You mean since Diego go done for cocaine charges, banned and never played again for them? It's not true that he "made them" a good team, they already were a good team when he joined them. Napoli had done well in the preceeding years and invested in a good squad - although his performances were what drove them on to a higher level it's true. However, If he was so magical that he could turn up and win you a league, why couldn't he do it at Barça too? It sounds like you weren't even around in the 80s and you've just looked all this up on Youtube and Wikipedia. It's not that Messi is definitely better than Maradona or vice versa, it's the idea that comparisons are "laughable". No they aren't. Messi played five seasons of incredible football to a high level that Maradona never managed to do week-in, week-out, he scored so many goals that it was outrageous, he won best player in the world 4 times, he was the inspiration for 2 European Cup victories (Maradona never managed that). I can remember Maradona and maybe, but only maybe, he did have a touch more raw talent than Messi, but it's a very close run thing indeed.

In 2006, I lived in Barcelona and the buzz around the city was that Messi was going to be "better than Ronaldinho and better than Maradona". Everyone was talking about him as a one-off talent. He was being compared to Maradona from day one. Within a few months he was slaloming his way through opposition teams single-handed without any help from Xavi and Iniesta much of the time.

It's posturing to say that they aren't peers. You know who'd disagree with you don't you?

Diego Maradona.

 

[Favelado]

Idris2002 What does it mean?

 

[ska invita]

Gotze's goal really was brilliant - I think it might even be goal of the tournament. Compared to James's it doesnt have the spectacular roof of the net finish, but the difficulty level looks higher to me - he's running at some speed (having just charged down thepitch), whereas james is stationary, even after the chest he is facing away from goal and the shot is taken completely blind - James's first touch allows him to turn to at least face the direction of the goal, and then the angle is still really tight and theres a brilliant keeper to beat, and the contact is made at full stretch - and all in the dying minutes of extra time in the world up final
...anyhow, amazing instinctual finish

 

[Idris2002]

Idris2002 What does it mean?

Es ist ein visualische PUN, oder ein "play on words".

"I am Messi".

First German player: "And I am a Wessi", i.e. someone from what used to West Germany,

Second German player: "And I am Ossi", i.e. someone from the former GDR.

Even a quarter of a century after the Wall fell, these are still major differences of identity here in Germany.

And that's before inter-species relations are thrown into the mix:

 

[Idris2002]

And now the Tartan Army want in on the visual pun action:

Spoiler

 

[Betsy]

What happens re cards,red or yellow that are given in a World Cup final?

 

[Spymaster]

Hopefully they all get collected together and shoved sideways up Sepp Blatter's arse.

 

[Betsy]

I think if I was booed every time my face was shown on a big screen I would get the message and skeddadle!

 

[Favelado]

Never too much.

 

[Lord Camomile]

I think if I was booed every time my face was shown on a big screen I would get the message and skeddadle!

Yes, but Blatter doesn't think like the rest of us...

 

[Badgers]

Yes, but Blatter doesn't think like the rest of us...

He sees the big picture

 

[Betsy]

Never too much.

 

[Betsy]

Yes, but Blatter doesn't think like the rest of us...

More's the pity.

 

[doddles]

Bit sad for the auld Argies. As the telly blokes said, Germany were the best team in the tournament, but not on the night.

Don't agree with that at all. Germany played a more attacking line, Argentina jammed up their defence, did whatever it took to try to stifle Germany and played on the break. Germany would have been far more effective if Mascherano had not been constantly fouling them - he should have been sent off with two yellow cards, and without his constant fouling, Germany would have probably scored a few. As it was, they hit the post and scored, versus nothing of note on target for Argentina.

Germany was the best on the night and in the tournament.

English telly pundits were largely clueless. They still have a very hard time understanding non-Premier League football.

 

[Favelado]

An Argentine friend wrote to me today with a typically hyperbolic analysis. She is always quite funny about football and has kept her sense of humour.

hola Favelado si es duro, más que no jugaron mal pero se lo merecen por no llevar a Tevez y poner al muerto de Palacios y al boludo de Aguero, además Higuaín no le mete un gol ni al arcoiris.

Hi Favelado, you're right, it is hard to take, especially seeing as they didn't play badly - but it's what they deserve for not taking Tevéz or putting to death Palacios and this dickhead Aguero. Also, Higuaín couldn't score a goal through a rainbow.

 

[belboid]

can anyone score a goal through a rainbow???

 

[Favelado]

can anyone score a goal through a rainbow???

I guess you could translate it as "he couldn't score if the goal was as wide as a rainbow" but I liked the more literal translation.

 

[belboid]

it certainly has more charm than 'a barn door'

 

[Wilf]

Don't agree with that at all. Germany played a more attacking line, Argentina jammed up their defence, did whatever it took to try to stifle Germany and played on the break. Germany would have been far more effective if Mascherano had not been constantly fouling them - he should have been sent off with two yellow cards, and without his constant fouling, Germany would have probably scored a few. As it was, they hit the post and scored, versus nothing of note on target for Argentina.

Germany was the best on the night and in the tournament.

English telly pundits were largely clueless. They still have a very hard time understanding non-Premier League football.

To be fair my focus on which strip I liked best, suggested I wasn't goin to be coming up with cogent tactical analysis.

 

[JTG]

The dutch I've spoken to about it tend to mention 1940 as the tipping point

They like to think that, yes. Strangely, there was no needle until 74, when West Germany deservedly beat Holland to win the Cup.

Anyway, Argentina very nearly got that spot on - had all the best chances and better finishing would have won it. Germany are admirable champions but Argentina have my respect for nearly playing the perfect game to beat the best team in the world.

 

[nuffsaid]

 

[Batboy]

Don't agree with that at all. Germany played a more attacking line, Argentina jammed up their defence, did whatever it took to try to stifle Germany and played on the break. Germany would have been far more effective if Mascherano had not been constantly fouling them - he should have been sent off with two yellow cards, and without his constant fouling, Germany would have probably scored a few. As it was, they hit the post and scored, versus nothing of note on target for Argentina.

Germany was the best on the night and in the tournament.

English telly pundits were largely clueless. They still have a very hard time understanding non-Premier League football.

I agree with the Germany were better on the night, but I actually thought Mascherano had a great game. He is a tough tackler and was their best player by a mile if not the whole tournament. How Messi won player of the tournament is a joke and shows just how fucked up FIFA are. There wasn't a best player of the tournament because for once a team won it. The Germans were the player of the tournament an absololutely class act in terms of football and overall conduct.

I'm in Morroco at the moment and I watched game in the bar with some Germans. I cheered Germany to the rafters (much to the confusion of the Germans in the bar). I love em. The TV I watched it on had Graeme Souness as a pundit, who contrary to the TV pundits you mention had the exact same take on it as me.

Brilliant Brilliant World Cup that takes me back to my childhood when the only World Cup in my book that matches this was 1970... Brazil magic then... and a German side filled with young players now the master of great technical pure football without the over the top histrionics and who played as a team... football has reclaimed the World Cup.

England we are shite... Robben is a diving cunt, Blatter an even bigger one, Brazil as a team let football down, Brazil as a World Cup tournament ignited a million memories and finally worthy worthy quite brilliant winners....

 

[MrSki]

Final post.

 

[JTG]

No it isn't

 

[sleaterkinney]

English telly pundits were largely clueless. They still have a very hard time understanding non-Premier League football.

Hoddle was ok, but the likes of Ferdinand and Shearer were abysmal, just trotting out inane cliches.

 

[free spirit]

An Argentine friend wrote to me today with a typically hyperbolic analysis. She is always quite funny about football and has kept her sense of humour.

Not just me that thinks they were fucking nuts not to take Tevez then?

 

[not-bono-ever]

I dont mind Rio- he seems a good sort and is a Peckham boy.

 

[JTG]

Not just me that thinks they were fucking nuts not to take Tevez then?

I think Sheffield United wanted too much compo if they did

 

[goldenecitrone]

Thank fuck for Mario Gotze. Cracking goal and a thoroughly deserved fourth World Cup for Deutschland. Special mention for Boateng who had a superb game and kept the Argentine at bay. Jut jespielt Jungs!!!

 

[Batboy]

You mean since Diego go done for cocaine charges, banned and never played again for them? It's not true that he "made them" a good team, they already were a good team when he joined them. Napoli had done well in the preceeding years and invested in a good squad - although his performances were what drove them on to a higher level it's true. However, If he was so magical that he could turn up and win you a league, why couldn't he do it at Barça too? It sounds like you weren't even around in the 80s and you've just looked all this up on Youtube and Wikipedia. It's not that Messi is definitely better than Maradona or vice versa, it's the idea that comparisons are "laughable". No they aren't. Messi played five seasons of incredible football to a high level that Maradona never managed to do week-in, week-out, he scored so many goals that it was outrageous, he won best player in the world 4 times, he was the inspiration for 2 European Cup victories (Maradona never managed that). I can remember Maradona and maybe, but only maybe, he did have a touch more raw talent than Messi, but it's a very close run thing indeed.

In 2006, I lived in Barcelona and the buzz around the city was that Messi was going to be "better than Ronaldinho and better than Maradona". Everyone was talking about him as a one-off talent. He was being compared to Maradona from day one. Within a few months he was slaloming his way through opposition teams single-handed without any help from Xavi and Iniesta much of the time.

It's posturing to say that they aren't peers. You know who'd disagree with you don't you?

Diego Maradona.

To be fair that's a bit too slanted, Maradona may have joined Naples who became a very good side, but Messi was in a quite fantastic Barcelona side littered with star players, Messi didn't win the European Cup on his own (there were many other inspirational players) in the same way Maradona didn't win the World Cup on his own, as brilliant as he was (especially with his hand). It is a team game.

At the time Maradona was at Napoli, there were many far better 'teams' around (notably European), Barcelona ruled the European roost for a few years, not only with Messi but because of some other very world class players, which blurred into Spain dominating International Football. You cannot compare the two situations. Very different.

If you roll down the years, football historically has been about eras. Leeds were a dominant force in English Football for a few years, where are they now? It can go very tits up as Naples found. As have now Brazil, they are in the doldrums. Hopefully Manchester United will get relegated this season and draw that era to a close.

All the arguments about best players in the world are very subjective and essentially mute, because it is a team game and as Germany has shown you don't need one 'wonder-kid' to win it for you.