General Coronavirus (COVID-19) chat

[elbows]

If thats the case, then why do we not treat all infectious diseases in the same manner? And as for estimates, they were wildly innacurate (and high) because the infection rate was massively over estimated in the same way the mortality rate for case positivity was massively over estimated. Thats been accepted now, but we now we find ourselves panicking over case increases that aren't leading to increases in illness any longer.

No idea what you are talking about in regard infection rate overestimations.

What exactly are you saying has been accepted now?

 

[frogwoman]

Sure, Florida, Texas, Brazil, Peru etc all well on the way to herd immunity arent they with the economy stronger than ever

 

[frogwoman]

What was that Bolsonaro said, 'I'm sorry about the deaths but we all need to get on with life'. While the infection shows very little sign of slowing down whatsoever and deaths have been at over 1100 per day for months.

 

[elbows]

If thats the case, then why do we not treat all infectious diseases in the same manner?

Because the burden of different diseases on humanity varies. Whenever it is considered relevant to intervene, then special attention will be paid to case numbers and reducing transmission, but outside these scenarios the numbers are still of interest.

Infectious diseases that are novel to humans and where no specific prior population immunity to the disease exists tend to provoke a very different reaction and get their own label, pandemic, to reflect the different magnitude of implications that result when such novel diseases manage to spread far and wide. Eventually the picture does change, and the disease ends up getting treated differently because the burden has become different. Expecting that change to happen at this stage of this pandemic is stupid though, it will not happen until it is demonstrated that the susceptibility and death burden from the virus has changed. The end of first waves doesnt prove that at all, and in pandemic terms it is still early days.

 

[return of caleb]

Given the Melbourne / Victoria outbreak seems to have been at least partly caused by people not self-quarantining this seems eminently sensible. To be honest, this together with your postings on another thread is making you sound a bit like a plandemic type.

Yeah, this isn't true. The outbreak was caused by the state government palming off the quarantine scheme to private security firms, then spread to industry and business which was never locked down or properly regulated to begin with. The stuff about people not self-quarantining properly has been a red herring from the state government - they haven't actually provided any more context or data regarding this. It's presumed that a large number of these people would have been precarious workers not covered by any sick leave were they to isolate, which has now sort of been resolved.

 

[Dogsauce]

“Dragged into quarantine” ffs. Jacinda’s gestapo kicking the door down, throwing you in the local ‘Bangkok Hilton’. Not what’s happening is it? Perfectly reasonable to accept mandatory quarantine for the ‘common good’, where such concepts still exist, which fortunately is much of the world.

 

[Roadkill]

Article in The Conversation suggesting that social distancing and so on are basically good things and the pandemic is an opportunity to 'change our health behaviours for good.'

Of course the pandemic will cause long-term changes in behaviour, some probably for the better. But the implication we should actually embrace a world of home-working, masks and sanitisers, and avoiding gatherings and close human contact is pretty fucking bleak IMO.

 

[Badgers]

Article in The Conversation suggesting that social distancing and so on are basically good things and the pandemic is an opportunity to 'change our health behaviours for good.'

Of course the pandemic will cause long-term changes in behaviour, some probably for the better. But the implication we should actually embrace a world of home-working, masks and sanitisers, and avoiding gatherings and close human contact is pretty fucking bleak IMO.

Masks will be around for a while yet. Use is already sporadic but expect them to remain a thing throughout autumn and winter.

Frankly the sanitiser is not a bad habit imo. Hardly depressing to sanitise in/out of shops or if around kids etc is it?

Homeworking is (again imo) a big positive for those that can do it. Commuting can do one and most people I speak have been eating better, walking more and getting more done.

Public gatherings will return when safe to do so.

 

[Roadkill]

Masks will be around for a while yet. Use is already sporadic but expect them to remain a thing throughout autumn and winter.

Frankly the sanitiser is not a bad habit imo. Hardly depressing to sanitise in/out of shops or if around kids etc is it?

Homeworking is (again imo) a big positive for those that can do it. Commuting can do one and most people I speak have been eating better, walking more and getting more done.

Public gatherings will return when safe to do so.

Personally I agree with most of that, except for the home-working bit, which is fine for some but not others. But they seem to be implying it'd be a good thing for people to avoid gatherings, maintain social distancing and so on, and accept these as normal behaviour in the long term rather than as a specific response to an emergency. I find that pretty depressing tbh.

 

[Badgers]

Personally I agree with most of that, except for the home-working bit, which is fine for some but not others. But they seem to be implying it'd be a good thing for people to avoid gatherings, maintain social distancing and so on, and accept these as normal behaviour rather than a specific response to an emergency. I find that pretty depressing tbh.

I do miss the getting up at 06:30 to get on a packed train to the office. Spending £5k (post tax) on a season ticket and waiting in the rain/cold for delayed trains.

Listening to colleagues witterting away. Sitting in pointless meetings that could have been sorted on phone/zoom/email. Trekking across town or further to meet with other companies in pointlessly expensive cafes to sort things out that could have been sorted on phone/zoom/email.

Getting home after 7pm, tired and feeling like going to bed after dinner five nights a week. Cramming everything else into the two day weekend and wondering why I am not seeing my family enough.

#greattimes

 

[Hyperdark]

Some reading


Coronavirus drugmakers' latest tactics: Science by press release

New Data on the Oxford/AZ Vaccine

I'm a doctor and this is the hard-to-swallow truth about the coronavirus vaccine

A Key To Understanding The Race For A Covid-19 Vaccine

 

[Roadkill]

I do miss the getting up at 06:30 to get on a packed train to the office. Spending £5k (post tax) on a season ticket and waiting in the rain/cold for delayed trains.

Listening to colleagues witterting away. Sitting in pointless meetings that could have been sorted on phone/zoom/email. Trekking across town or further to meet with other companies in pointlessly expensive cafes to sort things out that could have been sorted on phone/zoom/email.

Getting home after 7pm, tired and feeling like going to bed after dinner five nights a week. Cramming everything else into the two day weekend and wondering why I am not seeing my family enough.

#greattimes

Harsh, but probably describes the situation pretty well for someone working in the corporate sector in London. But my job can't be done nearly as well online as it can face to face, and personally I miss the interaction with other people, and I walk to work. The only real advantage of WFH for me is that I spend a bit less on lunch and coffee.

 

[Badgers]

140,000 Brits rushing back to avoid quarantine, how many are being tested at ports & airports.....

Virtual none, so what's the fucking point?

 

[Buddy Bradley]

140,000 Brits rushing back to avoid quarantine, how many are being tested at ports & airports.....

Virtual none, so what's the fucking point?

Exactly. Arbitrary deadline is arbitrary.

 

[Hyperdark]

As of yesterday in the whole of the UK a grand total of 10 people have been fined for breaking quarantine since the rule came about in June 8th

 

[Hyperdark]

If thats the case, then why do we not treat all infectious diseases in the same manner? And as for estimates, they were wildly innacurate (and high) because the infection rate was massively over estimated in the same way the mortality rate for case positivity was massively over estimated. Thats been accepted now, but we now we find ourselves panicking over case increases that aren't leading to increases in illness any longer.

Regarding your last point, I think this is mainly because firstly their has been more testing so more asymptomatic cases are being picked up and secondly the infection has become more widespread in the young who are now largely ignoring social distancing etc
whereas oldies are still scared and keeping to themselves, both these factors will result in a lower death/seriousness illness to infection ratio

 

[Cloo]

It does piss me off that some people are all 'Oh, isn't it awful how quickly we've got used to face masks and social distancing?!' - it isn't awful, it's great. It goes to show human beings' flexibility and consideration for others. No one likes it, no one wants it to go on forever, but it's great we can get used to it without being traumatised and psychologically scarred (on the whole) and get on with our lives while keeping everyone safer. And no it doesn't mean people are 'being made more receptive to government control' either - people complying are actually making their own decisions and often complying even if they're not convinced by the evidence, but don't see any reason not to.

 

[ddraig]

Because the burden of different diseases on humanity varies. Whenever it is considered relevant to intervene, then special attention will be paid to case numbers and reducing transmission, but outside these scenarios the numbers are still of interest.

Infectious diseases that are novel to humans and where no specific prior population immunity to the disease exists tend to provoke a very different reaction and get their own label, pandemic, to reflect the different magnitude of implications that result when such novel diseases manage to spread far and wide. Eventually the picture does change, and the disease ends up getting treated differently because the burden has become different. Expecting that change to happen at this stage of this pandemic is stupid though, it will not happen until it is demonstrated that the susceptibility and death burden from the virus has changed. The end of first waves doesnt prove that at all, and in pandemic terms it is still early days.

Don't waste your time on them, honestly

 

[Dogsauce]

Masks will be around for a while yet. Use is already sporadic but expect them to remain a thing throughout autumn and winter.

Frankly the sanitiser is not a bad habit imo. Hardly depressing to sanitise in/out of shops or if around kids etc is it?

Homeworking is (again imo) a big positive for those that can do it. Commuting can do one and most people I speak have been eating better, walking more and getting more done.

I actually miss proper commuting, on my previous job I’d cycle nearly 100 miles a week, usually as fast as I could, so it kept me fit. There’s berks who drive to work then spend more of their time and money going to gyms which makes no sense to me (though conversely they might not see the benefit in occasionally getting clattered over by an inattentive Fiesta driver). I can’t actually do much of my new job from home and current commute is a six minute walk or two minutes on the bike, no fun to be had.

 

[Cloo]

My employers are looking into reopening office - buildings still closed until end of September at the moment. Apparently it will cost £2500 a day to open the London office and they say they can only get 48 people (rather than the usual 200 or so) into it at a time. They're also going to consult with us about what aspect of physically working together people need/want. I might be up for going in once a month for some kind of meaningful interaction I suppose.

 

[Badgers]

I actually miss proper commuting, on my previous job I’d cycle nearly 100 miles a week, usually as fast as I could, so it kept me fit. There’s berks who drive to work then spend more of their time and money going to gyms which makes no sense to me (though conversely they might not see the benefit in occasionally getting clattered over by an inattentive Fiesta driver). I can’t actually do much of my new job from home and current commute is a six minute walk or two minutes on the bike, no fun to be had.

Can see this. Thing is that now I am not commuting by train I have a lot more free time for walking/cycling etc.

 

[pesh]

I actually miss proper commuting, on my previous job I’d cycle nearly 100 miles a week, usually as fast as I could, so it kept me fit. There’s berks who drive to work then spend more of their time and money going to gyms which makes no sense to me (though conversely they might not see the benefit in occasionally getting clattered over by an inattentive Fiesta driver). I can’t actually do much of my new job from home and current commute is a six minute walk or two minutes on the bike, no fun to be had.

move further away, or just cycle in the wrong direction for the first 10 miles each day

 

[8ball]

Just noticed there is nothing on BBC2, and they are just showing the news channel.

Don’t recall this being normal before the virus.

(it’s just for a couple of hours but still seems unusual)

 

[Buddy Bradley]

My employers are looking into reopening office - buildings still closed until end of September at the moment. Apparently it will cost £2500 a day to open the London office and they say they can only get 48 people (rather than the usual 200 or so) into it at a time. They're also going to consult with us about what aspect of physically working together people need/want. I might be up for going in once a month for some kind of meaningful interaction I suppose.

While I can definitely see the attraction of a change of scenery, I think it's the little things that would end up being super annoying. Like queuing for thirty minutes to use the lift one person at a time, or mandated coffee machine visit times.

 

[Cloo]

While I can definitely see the attraction of a change of scenery, I think it's the little things that would end up being super annoying. Like queuing for thirty minutes to use the lift one person at a time, or mandated coffee machine visit times.

Yeah, though we're only 5 storeys (and most of us are in the first 3) so that's not too much of an issue. And I don't drink coffee

That's weird 8ball - but I so hardly watch telly I would never had noticed that!

 

[xenon]

Masks will be around for a while yet. Use is already sporadic but expect them to remain a thing throughout autumn and winter.

Frankly the sanitiser is not a bad habit imo. Hardly depressing to sanitise in/out of shops or if around kids etc is it?

Homeworking is (again imo) a big positive for those that can do it. Commuting can do one and most people I speak have been eating better, walking more and getting more done.

Public gatherings will return when safe to do so.

I don't like wearing masks, (who does,) so will be glad the day, the mandatory mass wearing of them can be dispensed with.

Have been using hand sanatiser since swine flu and the realisation many pubs, other places that sell food, often don't have soap, or you're afraid to touch anything in the bog anyway. Always like to have some on me.

WFH for the foreseeable and don't mind so far.

Public gatherings concerns me. From the point of view music industry, gigs, realistically could become a thing of the past without proper and continuing financial support.

 

[frogwoman]

Frankly I don't mind wearing masks and I'll be delighted if it becomes a thing during flu season and so on, I have been really sick in the past with flu and colds so hope this carries on. I can get weird facial ticks and talk to myself a lot so selfishly feel more confident walking around wearing a mask as well.

Hand sanitizer is a bit of a pain and I'm not sure what environmental impact that large quantities of it will have long term. It would be a shame if mass gatherings disappeared but I don't think they will tbh.

I've been working from home since 2018 and frankly prefer it, saves a fortune in commuter costs. Appreciate that it's not like that in every job tho.

 

[xenon]

I actually quite like hand sanitiser. I'm mildly OCD, cleaning hands, always going back into my flat to check I've turned the oven off etc (even when I haven't used it that day,) Well I mean, not if I'm a mile away but just at the main entrance... Nearly bought 5 litres of it online yesterday, might still do.

Fortunately don't get too many colds, well apart from back end of last and early this year. Pretty sure it wasn't covid but had a horrible cough and crackly breathing for ages that went away and back for a couple of months. Shoulda probably seen a doc but when appointments are 2 weeks away, you kinda think I'll be over it by then.

 

[xenon]

Frankly I don't mind wearing masks and I'll be delighted if it becomes a thing during flu season and so on, I have been really sick in the past with flu and colds so hope this carries on. I can get weird facial ticks and talk to myself a lot so selfishly feel more confident walking around wearing a mask as well.

Hand sanitizer is a bit of a pain and I'm not sure what environmental impact that large quantities of it will have long term. It would be a shame if mass gatherings disappeared but I don't think they will tbh.

I've been working from home since 2018 and frankly prefer it, saves a fortune in commuter costs. Appreciate that it's not like that in every job tho.

Just guessing here really but I think apart from the packaging the chemicals in alcohol based hand sanitiser are fairly benign as it just evaporates. The rest is some vitemine e, water and leaf extract to make it smell nicer.

 

[8ball]

Frankly I don't mind wearing masks and I'll be delighted if it becomes a thing during flu season and so on, I have been really sick in the past with flu and colds so hope this carries on. I can get weird facial ticks and talk to myself a lot so selfishly feel more confident walking around wearing a mask as well.

I think the virus will be around to at least some degree for some time yet, and even if masks don’t become a big thing over flu season, some will be wearing masks and it will def seem less odd than in previous years.