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General Coronavirus (COVID-19) chat

Aladdin said:
I got signed off work permanently due to ill health..
I've not been vaccinated since Nov last year because the consultant said its highly likely that the vaccines kicked off my autoimmune liver disease which tried to kill me.

Work contacted me about a retirement party..I explained that I couldn't attend something like that. Now some retired staff who are friends of mine want to throw me a retirement do..one of them phoned me last night asking about different locations etc. I had to really spell it out to her but she didnt understand. She then mentioned having a party in her own house.
I ended up having to tell her no agajn and could sense she felt hurt. Its as if she didnt believe me

Fuck it. I wish people could understand... 😪
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That must be really hard. There are some things I can't do in a work context for health reasons and it really frustrates me that over and over people don't get it.

We have someone who is part of our team who is very vulnerable to covid and we've all just got used to the fact that we only see her on screen / the odd outdoor thing. Could you suggest something that would work for you - eg an online goodbye, or something outside if you're comfortable with that?
 
lazythursday said:
That must be really hard. There are some things I can't do in a work context for health reasons and it really frustrates me that over and over people don't get it.

We have someone who is part of our team who is very vulnerable to covid and we've all just got used to the fact that we only see her on screen / the odd outdoor thing. Could you suggest something that would work for you - eg an online goodbye, or something outside if you're comfortable with that?
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I would definitely not want anything online with anyone. I hated all that...

It's the little group of friends who have already retired(5 of them) who want to meet up and take me for a meal out, that worries me. I would go to a place that had outdoor seating but then..they're all older and might not fancy sitting outdoors in November.

One of them asked if I would consider coming to breakfast at her house . I said maybe. Then she said two others might come.
I just don't think its a good idea. And some people don't get it at all. They think that because I look ok that I am grand.
 
Had a booster and a flu shot yesterday. Dunno why they insisted in doing it in different arms. It made sleeping a bit uncomfortable though. I did manage to sleep though as I’ve only just got up. The shots must have made me very tired!
 
here's my take on the global conspiracy by the social anarchy movement to spread covid-19 across the world, bare in mind i'm Australian

Why does it matter if the majority of the population don't trust governments anymore?

Most people are stupid. I'll give an example. More people would support Julian Assange to take over the day to day administration of every political democracy in the west simply because all Assange is good at is hacking and making politicians look stupid. Yet little is known of Assange's political ambitions to destroy government and start a social anarchy revolution. This whole covid virus sh%t storm is simply a means to an ends.

And the ends or end game for the social anarchy movement is the permanent removal of the ruling elites.

Its just really convenient to the social anarchists that Julian Assange who I am going to name as the head anon otherwise known as the leader of anonymous is locked up in a british prison when in truth he should be doing a life sentence for murdering a young american high school girl. Don't believe me, go to Charleston South Carolina and ask around about Anonymous.

A society without a ruling class sounds good but really

It's not like the alternative would be any better. Imagine all those chardonnay sipping ultra far left social anarchists running society. who wants that?
what would happen when the world ran out of free cocaine, free heroin and all the masses started to riot because hyper-inflation has made it impossible for everyday people to purchase anything of value. That's what will happen if the social anarchy movements revolution occurs.

oh wait a minute it's been a massive social anarchy conspiracy from day 1 when covid was unleashed on the world and social anarchists from New York to Melbourne have been frothing at the mouth at the possibility of unprecedented chaos and social upheaval aka mass protests hijacked by both the far left and far right looneys who want riots and looting leading to the fall of law and order and the ultimatum goal of destruction of every level of government.

Word to the wise covid is real. It kills. I think we should all take a short breather and thank our lucky stars we still have a form of government that every Australian is free to criticize

it's just really unfair moistly older people die from the covid virus yet you don't see dubya bush or tony blair or John Howard or Jeff Kennett dying from it.
 
Logan^B said:
here's my take on the global conspiracy by the social anarchy movement to spread covid-19 across the world, bare in mind i'm Australian

Why does it matter if the majority of the population don't trust governments anymore?

Most people are stupid. I'll give an example. More people would support Julian Assange to take over the day to day administration of every political democracy in the west simply because all Assange is good at is hacking and making politicians look stupid. Yet little is known of Assange's political ambitions to destroy government and start a social anarchy revolution. This whole covid virus sh%t storm is simply a means to an ends.

And the ends or end game for the social anarchy movement is the permanent removal of the ruling elites.

Its just really convenient to the social anarchists that Julian Assange who I am going to name as the head anon otherwise known as the leader of anonymous is locked up in a british prison when in truth he should be doing a life sentence for murdering a young american high school girl. Don't believe me, go to Charleston South Carolina and ask around about Anonymous.

A society without a ruling class sounds good but really

It's not like the alternative would be any better. Imagine all those chardonnay sipping ultra far left social anarchists running society. who wants that?
what would happen when the world ran out of free cocaine, free heroin and all the masses started to riot because hyper-inflation has made it impossible for everyday people to purchase anything of value. That's what will happen if the social anarchy movements revolution occurs.

oh wait a minute it's been a massive social anarchy conspiracy from day 1 when covid was unleashed on the world and social anarchists from New York to Melbourne have been frothing at the mouth at the possibility of unprecedented chaos and social upheaval aka mass protests hijacked by both the far left and far right looneys who want riots and looting leading to the fall of law and order and the ultimatum goal of destruction of every level of government.

Word to the wise covid is real. It kills. I think we should all take a short breather and thank our lucky stars we still have a form of government that every Australian is free to criticize

it's just really unfair moistly older people die from the covid virus yet you don't see dubya bush or tony blair or John Howard or Jeff Kennett dying from it.
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Wrong website for this.

It's all anti-social anarchist in here.
 
There is a thread calling for Assange to take over the day to day administration of every political democracy in the west though, have to give the new poster that.
 
This worldwide social anarchy movement is so good with its covid conspiracy that it has managed to infect millions around the globe whilst leaving absolutely no proof of its actions whatsoever. That's what I call fiendish. I wonder what else they're up to. In absolute secrecy, of course.
 
nagapie said:
I'm a carer, last time I tried to get one carers weren't on the list. Maybe she was considered immunosuppressed.
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I know this was a month ago, but all carers can definitely get both flu and covid vaccines. I had trouble a couple of years ago because I don't live with the person i care for, so GP wouldn't jab me. However if you book online this year, being a carer is the first qusstion it asks about eligibility Book, cancel or change a COVID-19 vaccination appointment
 
Almost everyone I know has had covid in the last few weeks. One or two have been in hospital but recovered quickly with treatment. A couple of older people who weren't initially too unwell are feeling very week and tired a month later. I think I may have had it last month, though it didn't test positive on LFT and wasn't as bad as the previous time i had it. I've since had a non-covid cold which turned into a viral chest infection. My partner has had covid, then the cold, and now a bacterial chest infection one after the other.

Waiting with her in the GP surgery today, i noticed there has been a change on the video screen from the heavy rotation of Prevent adverts with occasional interludes into hot water bottle safety and Pharmacy First which has been playing for months. Today it was Measles vaccine, hand washing, and Hands Face Space to prevent Long Covid!
 
Im not going to waste my time on the same old shit angle part of that from the likes of you and your ignorant pandemic stance, but other aspects are worth talking about.

I hope there are studies comparing different nations in terms of the affects on children. Because I would expect the UK to be one of the worst if not the worst, for reasons including:

The longer you wait till imposing the strictest measures, the bigger problem you end up with and the longer your lockdowns etc end up ultimately lasting as a result. And the UK was one of the worst for that, so we had some of the longest lockdowns and didnt have as much wiggle room to ease restrictions that affected education and children as soon as some nations had.

I dont believe the UKs proclamations about its prioritisation of education etc were actually matched by actions and proper resourcing. I believe we often paid mere lip service to some of this stuff, and had a half-arsed approach to funding and mitigation. Everything from laptops for home learning to ventilation and monitoring were likely botched, and there was probably a lack of imagination too.

I've got no idea what we were like at trying to repair the damage, bridge gaps, provide decent opportunities for catching-up etc later on, either in isolation or compared to other countries.
 
I'd probably go further, I still think herd immunity was the objective at high levels of government, and children were seen as the means of getting there. Everything else was just a lot of noise - pearl-clutching about disadvantaged children from people who had never given the slightest fuck about them until the economic imperative to keep schools open arose.
 
Fruitloop said:
I'd probably go further, I still think herd immunity was the objective at high levels of government, and children were seen as the means of getting there. Everything else was just a lot of noise - pearl-clutching about disadvantaged children from people who had never given the slightest fuck about them until the economic imperative to keep schools open arose.
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That was certainly a big factor in cold calculations at the start, before they had to change plans in a hurry. Likely some in power were still attracted to the idea when the 2nd wave loomed, and that influenced the further delays to lockdowns etc then, and initial attempts to do 2nd wave lockdowns that didnt involve school closures.

As for the economic and workforce reasons for keeping schools open, these were certainly baked into the establishment thinking right from the start and all the way along. So yes, a lot of the other rhetoric was disingenuous and was actually in service to the economic and workforce impacts of closing schools, not the wellbeing of children. But there would still have been some people within the system that really did care about the children and education.
 
_Russ_ said:
Get the fuck over yourself, these are real affects
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Of course they are real effects. We will hear about them for years to come. The rest of my post that you quoted alluded to some of these very real impacts.

What I wont accept is being told about these real effects by ignorant cherrypicking shits who spent the entire pandemic being in denial about the numerous real effects of the virus itself, and the very real reasons why we ended up taking the actions we took. Of course its easy for those people to go on about the negative impact of the non-pharmaceutical measures, its easy for them to tell a simple and false story about it, because they dont have to balance that with what the effects of doing nothing would have been, because their ignorance afforded them the ability to believe that we could have carried on mostly as normal.

The ongoing public inquiry features plenty of moments where we hear about the negative impacts of the measures we took. But its grounded in the broader reality, the impact of the virus, the lack of capacity of our healthcare systems, the inability to rely on a targeted form of shielding, the failures of our establishment that left uf with no other options than to slam on the breaks and leave them on for a damaging amount of time. They dont have the luxury of buying into the absolute fallacy that there was a simple choice between acting or not acting.

Properly caring about the impact on children was a reason to act early. Countries that acted early and responsibly were able to impose restrictions for shorter periods of time, reducing the length of times thatt schools were closed. Some countries also did a much better job of actually supporting children and the education of children during periods of restriction. The UK half-arsed all of these things and so the impact on children was worse. Plus the virus was amplified by inequalities, and in a country as unequal and lopsided as this one, this also ended up applying not just to the virus, but also the impact of anti-virus measures, and thus to children.
 
Also the ignorance doesnt just get in the way of people who want to take strong public health action when faced with this sort of threat in future, to try to achieve the best possible outcomes by indulging in a precautionary approach and proper resourcing etc. The sort of stance that might be associated with someone like me.

It also gets in the way of societies that might want to have a different sort of discussion about our priorities. For example, it is possible that some people might want to discuss tricky topics about how we strike a balance, eg whether a society might decide to prioritise younger people, at the expense of the elderly. Whether a society might consciously decide to tolerate a lot of deaths in order to keep life more normal for other sections of society.

If people want to have this discussion then they need to be able to talk about some very difficult topics, from a point of view that properly includes the actual real impact and number of deaths that the virus is expected to cause in different age groups. There are a number of things that get in the way of discussions, but being in denial about how bad the virus actually is, being ignorant about what the real ipact of vaccines can be, being ignorant about what kinds of shielding are actually possible are certainly included in the list. Because if you are full of shit about some or all of those things then you make a mockery of the discussion, because you inject a bogus sense of what the sacrifices will be for the vulnerable population, how many deaths there could be if certain choices are made, the real decisions that will end up being made about rationing care and leaving people to die, etc etc. You can then end up with situations where, instead of a society having a proper debate about what the sacrifices are if we choose certain actions, these difficult things are brushed under the carpet, masked by people spinning bullshit, pushing for options that are a fiction, eg pretending that we have viable option of broader society carrying on as normal and magically shielding the vulnerable from harm. Or even cruder versions of that, where some took a simplistic 'we are overreacting, the virus isnt that big a deal, those old people would have died anyway' stance and didnt even pretend to backup that stance with actual facts or even unconvincing alternative options such as magical (implausible) shielding.
 
As someone without a spleen and thus with compromised immunity which vaccine would be best to get first Flu or COVID?

COVID is more deadly but Flu is more prevalent presumably.
 
ID47 said:
As someone without a spleen and thus with compromised immunity which vaccine would be best to get first Flu or COVID?

COVID is more deadly but Flu is more prevalent presumably.
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I'm not very comfortable answering that question specifically. And Im not sure there is much in the way of official advice along these lines.

I can only say that there has certainly been another covid wave recently, and whether that particular wave has peaked yet depends on what region you are in as far as I can tell from the official data. But the offical data on covid is also much weaker these days, and I have to make use of anecdotal indicators too, which also show that another wave has been underway in the last month or so. Whether levels of covid now go on to collapse before they eventually rise for the next wave I cannot say, that is the usual pattern but there is always the possibility that there wont be a huge decrease before the next increase I suppose.

Flu surveillance is yet another kettle of fish, which relies on sentinel surveillance rather than what we ended up with for surveillance in the covid pandemic. Signals from this system indicate that flu has started its typical uptick for this time of year, but this form of surveillance is nowhere near showing any sort of big seasonal flu outbreak yet, no looming epidemic indicators yet, and not comparable to the steeper upwards trend that was seen two years ago at this stage of the year, when we were rising towards what eventually became quite a nasty flu season that year. But flu levels are measuring higher than this time last year. This doesnt tell me much yet, it doesnt offer clues about whether flu will be bad this winter, only that it hasnt exploded yet. Which is fairly normal, the timing of any flu epidemics are quite variable but are usually quite some weeks later than now.

If it were me, I'd be trying to factor in more of a sense of any differences in my own personal risk from the two diseases in my thinking, as well as my own history of either catching the diseases or last being vaccinated against them, especially when it came to covid. If I were desperate to avoid covid then the last month or so would already have been a period where I was being a fair bit more cautious. I would have no great sense of if or when a flu epidemic might arrive this year beyond what I already said, and I certainly wouldnt want to be without a flu vaccine well before we get much further towards the end of the year. Try to get them both before too many more weeks pass.

Oh and there is no way I would presume that flu is currently more prevalent than Covid, the amounts of Covid that have been around since we removed restrictions has tended to be rather high in the grand scheme of things, whenever a covid wave has been in effect, which has been many times (I havent counted recently but we have had way more than 10 covid waves already as far as I recall). Flu might only rival covid for prevalence during the height of nasty flu epidemics, and even then I havent dont a proper formal comparison of estimated incidence rates on those occasions so Id need to do a lot more work to make that claim safely.
 
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