General Coronavirus (COVID-19) chat

[MrCurry]

And if I sound a bit tetchy when discussing this wave and the recent turn of events compared to how its been for months already, Im not pissed off with anyone here specifically. But I am more than dismayed with how perceptions more broadly (including in the press) shifted once we were no longer dealing with continual increases in numbers.

I mean for example I just posted latest version of hospital admissions by age graphs, and they show a worsening picture but its not like the picture was good even before the increases this month. #42,511

My only consolation is that whats happened in recent months is a thumb in the eye to the idiots who refused to believe that lockdowns and various other measures and changes to behaviour were responsible for the continual declines seen after the peaks of the previous waves. Declines we havent been treated to this time around. When people were tempted to feel like their actions were pointless in previous waves, I can at least point to whats happened this time as an illustration of what failure really looks like in that particular respect.

edit - oh and on that sort of theme I just found this:

Why Britons are tolerating sky-high Covid rates – and why this may not last

Analysis: as Covid cases reach 40,000 a day, scientists think normalisation is partly to blame for the lack of public reaction

www.theguardian.com

Good Guardian article that. I liked that the graphs let you add an extra country for comparison.

Seems like the politicians are taking advantage of the public’s fatigue and acceptance. I do hope people notice the data from other countries and realise it doesn’t have to be that way.

 

[elbows]

Well the Guardian article itself may be a demonstration of the changing mood music that will change public impressions of the pandemic in this phase. But since I dont know what exactly will happen next with cases, I shouldnt really try to predict too much on that front right now.

 

[Dogsauce]

It’s fucking shit though. Positive cases rising, hearing of loads of people I know getting infected which just didn’t happen with the first two waves. Thousands of people a day are getting properly ill and will take weeks to recover. It’s an unpleasant illness to go through even at a moderate level and leaves you really drained, knackered and depressed. The mrs has been nearly three weeks now not able to leave the house, signed off for at least another two weeks. I’m struggling on back at work now but it’s fucking me up and there’s a big backlog of things to do that is just getting bigger. So many other people will be going through the same thing, I have a friend who is still suffering eight months on, and has just tested positive again after her five year old brought it home from school. All this has social and economic effects. Fuck the complacency about it, it’s inhumane.

 

[Numbers]

Got a message from my boss last night to say he’s caught it, from his son who caught it in school. Both feeing unwell and both positive via PCR.

I spent all day with him on Wednesday, close up at times. Missus and I have tested negative on an LFT this morning thankfully.

 

[Dogsauce]

Got a message from my boss last night to say he’s caught it, from his son who caught it in school. Both feeing unwell and both positive via PCR.

I spent all day with him on Wednesday, close up at times. Missus and I have tested negative on an LFT this morning thankfully.

Keep doing those LFTs, it was nine days between my likely exposure and testing positive on an lft.

 

[Badgers]

Keep doing those LFTs, it was nine days between my likely exposure and testing positive on an lft.

Yeah this ^

They are no fun but best to keep doing them. For peace of mind as much as anything.

At the moment I am doing 12 a week which is annoying but keeps me sane. Have seen a lot of positive tested people wandering about maskless of late.

As posted above it is clearly Covid fatigue. Young people think they are invincible (I was the same that age) and there are a lot of people who HAVE to work so are ignoring it or simply not testing. The teachers I speak with are really beaten down now

 

[Mation]

How come we didn't hear more about intravenous oxygen as an alternative to ventilators? (Or did we and it was just me that missed it?)

It occurred to me this morning; googled it and found several links from 2012, when researchers at a Boston children's hospital were using it. But also a couple of covid-related papers from April and May 2020.

An alternative to ventilators to support critical COVID-19 patients (links to a PDF preprint; sorry about the unhelpful line breaks)

This blood oxygen infusion injection method is much simpler (no moving or
powered parts) and cheaper than the manufacture and operation of the lung ventilator,
making it easily available and applicable in many different healthcare environments
around the world. The correct and optimised IV delivery rate could be determined from
pulse oximeter readings for blood oxygen saturation. Thus, we propose an innovation
utilising the intravenous injection route coupled with nanobubble technology, which
could maintain blood oxygen pressure at normal levels safely and easily without the need
for ventilators. Theoretical Data analysis indicated that intravenous delivery of 400 ml
oxygen nanobubble physiological saline solution (ONPS) containing 40 mg O2/L can
improve low oxygen blood pressure (PaO2) from 0.133 kPa (typical for critical patients) to
a normal level of 13.3 kPa (normal people). Notably, the intravenous infusion contains
only pure oxygen and physiological saline solution without adding any other chemical or
biological reagents or drugs.

Peertechz Publications

www.peertechzpublications.com

 

[dtb]

Covid cases in England are nearing levels seen at the peak of the second wave

upday.com

f7td5.app.goo.gl

So what? A covid case is just a positive PCR or lateral flow test. PCR doesn't distinguish between common, cold, flu or Covid, it returns a high proportion of false positives and is being withdrawn at the end of December. Lateral flow is even less reliable.

CDC Planning to Withdraw Request for EUA of SARS-CoV-2 PCR Test | myADLM.org

After December 31, 2021, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) will withdraw its request to the Food and Drug Administration for emergency use authorization of the CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus Real-Time RT-PCR diagnostic panel.

www.aacc.org

If cases are such a concern and are rising so rapidly, what was the point of vaccinating everyone?

 

[cupid_stunt]

So what? A covid case is just a positive PCR or lateral flow test. PCR doesn't distinguish between common, cold, flu or Covid, it returns a high proportion of false positives and is being withdrawn at the end of December. Lateral flow is even less reliable.

Absolute fucking bonkers claim, you shit for brains freak.

CDC Planning to Withdraw Request for EUA of SARS-CoV-2 PCR Test | myADLM.org

After December 31, 2021, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) will withdraw its request to the Food and Drug Administration for emergency use authorization of the CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus Real-Time RT-PCR diagnostic panel.

www.aacc.org

That's just the CDC's own PCR test, not one used in the UK, you shit for brains freak.

If cases are such a concern and are rising so rapidly, what was the point of vaccinating everyone?

Because, it prevents most people from ending-up in hospital & dying, you shit for brains freak.

They are the poster that started this thread...

Morons Unite For The Freedom To Infect Each Other

www.urban75.net

Did I mention they're a shit for brains freak?

* ETA - that thread title was changed by the editor.

 

[Badgers]

So what? A covid case is just a positive PCR or lateral flow test. PCR doesn't distinguish between common, cold, flu or Covid, it returns a high proportion of false positives and is being withdrawn at the end of December. Lateral flow is even less reliable.

CDC Planning to Withdraw Request for EUA of SARS-CoV-2 PCR Test | myADLM.org

After December 31, 2021, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) will withdraw its request to the Food and Drug Administration for emergency use authorization of the CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus Real-Time RT-PCR diagnostic panel.

www.aacc.org

If cases are such a concern and are rising so rapidly, what was the point of vaccinating everyone?

Prick (soon to be dead)

 

[Spymaster]

In fairness, the number of infections isn't a partricularly useful gauge of the severity of the pandemic. Thousands of infections where everyone just sneezes a bit is less concerning than a handful of infections that kills everyone who gets it.

 

[cupid_stunt]

In fairness, the number of infections isn't a partricularly useful gauge of the severity of the pandemic. Thousands of infections where everyone just sneezes a bit is less concerning than a handful of infections that kills everyone who gets it.

That is true, although even mild cases can result in long covid, and both hospital admissions and deaths are raising again.

 

[Supine]

So what? A covid case is just a positive PCR or lateral flow test. PCR doesn't distinguish between common, cold, flu or Covid, it returns a high proportion of false positives and is being withdrawn at the end of December. Lateral flow is even less reliable.

CDC Planning to Withdraw Request for EUA of SARS-CoV-2 PCR Test | myADLM.org

After December 31, 2021, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) will withdraw its request to the Food and Drug Administration for emergency use authorization of the CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus Real-Time RT-PCR diagnostic panel.

www.aacc.org

If cases are such a concern and are rising so rapidly, what was the point of vaccinating everyone?

It’s solid science like this that makes urban 75 such a useful resource

 

[Spymaster]

That is true, although even mild cases can result in long covid, and both hospital admissions and deaths are raising again.

Yes, but that was always going to happen when restrictions ended. Am I right that covid deaths are now fewer than flu deaths, or did I mis-read that?

 

[cupid_stunt]

Yes, but that was always going to happen when restrictions ended. Am I right that covid deaths are now fewer than flu deaths, or did I mis-read that?

The UK's 7-day average for reported covid deaths is currently 116 = 42,320 per year, and increasing.

A average year of flu results in around 17,000 deaths.

 

[elbows]

Yes, but that was always going to happen when restrictions ended. Am I right that covid deaths are now fewer than flu deaths, or did I mis-read that?

Well flu often comes up when people try to put things into context, but a proportion of those people have really shit agendas and there are many distortions available using basic covid and flu death figures.

Experts wont even agree on what figure it is fair to use for average flu deaths, and this includes all sorts of people within the medical profession having quite different opinions about the typical burden from flu. So it gets very messy and it makes my blood boil when people downplay either flu or covid.

When it comes to the attitude of the authorities and when they feel the need to impose fresh restrictions, deaths are not the primary indicator anyway, hospitalisations are. Covid hospitalisations were reaching levels in July that started to make the authorities shit themselves, but then a peak and decline happened. However the decline was not sustained, and numbers didnt fall to low enough levels to give the authorities shitloads of wiggle room. Therefore if hospitalisations keep rising in the coming weeks, it wont take very long before the mood music from the media and government changes notably and we are back to a situation where it becomes harder for people to get confused about how much shit we are in again. However since I do not know exactly what will happen with case and hospitalisation rises in the coming weeks, I cannot make an accurate prediction.

 

[elbows]

So what? A covid case is just a positive PCR or lateral flow test. PCR doesn't distinguish between common, cold, flu or Covid, it returns a high proportion of false positives and is being withdrawn at the end of December. Lateral flow is even less reliable.

CDC Planning to Withdraw Request for EUA of SARS-CoV-2 PCR Test | myADLM.org

After December 31, 2021, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) will withdraw its request to the Food and Drug Administration for emergency use authorization of the CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus Real-Time RT-PCR diagnostic panel.

www.aacc.org

If cases are such a concern and are rising so rapidly, what was the point of vaccinating everyone?

In addition to everything else you are completely wrong about, if you actually read the article you linked to you will see that they are only withdrawing emergency use stuff for that particular CDC PCR test in the USA because there are a large number of other PCR tests for Covid that have been approved and are in regular use there. The CDC test was given emergency use right near the start because the alternatives didnt exist (or didnt have approval to be used) at the time. So the CDC version of the test was filling in an important gap that allowed authorities there to get on with the critical task of actually detecting Covid cases. It isnt necessary anymore because there are a plethora of approved Covid PCR tests in the market these days.

You havent got a clue, and your sort of ignorance costs lives. Fuck off.

 

[dtb]

Increase the number of tests and you'll find more cases, simple. The UK tests more people than the whole of the EU combined.
If you want to find more positive results then increase the number of cycle thresholds.

For those who don't understand how a PCR test works then here's a clear explanation:



Worth noting that the inventor of the PCR test advised it should never be used as a diagnostic too.

 

[elbows]

Increase the number of tests and you'll find more cases, simple.

We didnt find more cases when we imposed a range of restrictions in previous waves, even as we ramped up testing. Instead we got to observe a steady reduction in cases, hospitalisations and deaths.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Increase the number of tests and you'll find more cases, simple. The UK tests more people than the whole of the EU combined.
If you want to find more positive results then increase the number of cycle thresholds.

For those who don't understand how a PCR test works then here's a clear explanation:



Worth noting that the inventor of the PCR test advised it should never be used as a diagnostic too.

Oh, the debunked Dr Sam Bailey.

Around the video's three-minute, thirty-second mark Bailey says “there are major problems with this diagnostic test, in that it doesn’t test for the virus, it tests for a piece of genetic material that we don’t know the significance of”.

Thomas Lumley, professor of biostatistics at the University of Auckland told AFP in an email the genetic material the Covid-19 PCR tests for is “of known significance”.

“The test looks for RNA sequences that are present in the SARS-CoV-2 virus (Covid-19 virus) which are not present in other viruses known to infect humans,” he said in a September 11 email.

New Zealand doctor makes misleading claims about the country’s PCR testing regime in widely shared YouTube video

A video showing a New Zealand-based doctor claiming the PCR testing method for the novel coronavirus does not “actually test for the virus” and is being used inappropriately has been viewed tens of thousands of times on Facebook. The claims are misleading; multiple experts told AFP the PCR test...

factcheck.afp.com

 

[2hats]

The UK tests more people than the whole of the EU combined.

Oh dear.

Week 40:
Total coronavirus tests (UK) = 5,850,267 (source: gov.uk COVID-19 dashboard).
Total coronavirus tests (EU) = 17,516,954 (source: ECDC).

 

[Badgers]

Increase the number of tests and you'll find more cases, simple. The UK tests more people than the whole of the EU combined.
If you want to find more positive results then increase the number of cycle thresholds.

For those who don't understand how a PCR test works then here's a clear explanation:



Worth noting that the inventor of the PCR test advised it should never be used as a diagnostic too.

You. Fucking. Idiot.

 

[dtb]

Oh, the debunked Dr Sam Bailey.

New Zealand doctor makes misleading claims about the country’s PCR testing regime in widely shared YouTube video

A video showing a New Zealand-based doctor claiming the PCR testing method for the novel coronavirus does not “actually test for the virus” and is being used inappropriately has been viewed tens of thousands of times on Facebook. The claims are misleading; multiple experts told AFP the PCR test...

factcheck.afp.com

Debunked by the fact-checkers funded by big pharma

 

[two sheds]

Sounds like TobyJug facts

 

[cupid_stunt]

Sounds like TobyJug facts

More like a Dr Jazzz fact.

 

[Chilli.s]

The kind of twat that has to check notes

 

[prunus]

Increase the number of tests and you'll find more cases, simple. The UK tests more people than the whole of the EU combined.
If you want to find more positive results then increase the number of cycle thresholds.

For those who don't understand how a PCR test works then here's a clear explanation:



Worth noting that the inventor of the PCR test advised it should never be used as a diagnostic too.

Fuck off twat.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

PCR doesn't distinguish between common, cold, flu or Covid

i call bullshit on that

i've had two PCR tests (one last november and one a month or so back) as both times i've had something involving any combination of temperature, coughing, general crappy feeling which matched some covid symptoms, both tests were negative so i'm assuming both were some sort of flu.

and some people would argue that i'm common as well, and i still didn't get a positive test

 

[LDC]

Less bullshit and more just outright lies and misinformation. He's clearly an idiot falling for any old shit he watches on the internet. Fuck off dtb you're a dangerous fucking imbecile, not the free thinking iconoclast you like to imagine.

 

[_Russ_]

Why is this lie spreader being allowed a platform here? ban the little twat