General aviation/airplane news and chat

[Lancman]

Modern aircraft have an electric lock that prevents the undercarriage legs from retracting while it’s still on the ground regardless of any selection made in the cockpit. Ace fighter pilots soon realised that they could select “up” before starting their take-off run and let the aircraft decide when it was airborne and that the weight was off the wheels and then retract the undercarriage for itself. The pilots usually made sure that they were travelling fast enough to fly before they raised the nose, this clown didn’t. He rotated early and reduced the effective weight just enough for the aircraft to think it was airborne and instead of raising the legs it lowered itself on to the ground. “Gotcha!”
In the good old days when the pilot called “Undercarriage up” the Flight Engineer took a quick look outside before slipping a safety bolt aside and raising the undercarriage selection lever.
But if you will leave a pilot alone in a cockpit you’re asking for trouble.

 

[pogofish]

Interesting sight this afternoon - An RAF Boeing C17, flying very low and not on the usual flighpaths went over, went round twice before landing, then was back in the air within an hour.

It’s RRR830 according to Flightradar and currently it’s flown inland and over Brechin.

 

[T & P]

Interesting sight this afternoon - An RAF Boeing C17, flying very low and not on the usual flighpaths went over, went round twice before landing, then was back in the air within an hour.

It’s RRR830 according to Flightradar and currently it’s flown inland and over Brechin.

Now that most commercial aircraft are out of action, those chemtrails aren't going to spray themselves!

 

[T & P]

On more sombre news (or cheerful depending on your views on air travel), when one of the financially strongest airlines such as BA/ IAG are having to make redundant a quarter of their workforce overnight as it was announced today, you know the industry is truly fucked.

Having said that, I have always thought the entire industry is absurdly precarious in spite of consistently strong and growing demand for air travel for the last five decades (excluding the last three months of course).

I mean, 95% of the 150+ pax jet manufacturing industry is shared by a duopoly that’s about impossible to break into by anyone else. Compare that with the automobile industry, where many dozens if not hundreds of makers coexist.

And even within the Airbus- Boeing golden goose duopoly, certain models are commercial failures and flop simply because the competition’s offering boasts fuel savings as trifle as single-digit percentage points, or because increased commonality with other models means a bit less training if an airline wants to transfer their pilots from one model to the other. Or because of the little extra money that would cost to have on mechanics trained to service planes from two manufacturers in your fleet instead of one.

Imagine the likes of Avis and Hertz only ever having one car maker in their fleets because the relatively small extra cost of having to train maintenance crews for more than one car manufacturer was deemed too expensive for their business model to prosper. Fucking insane when you think about it. Something is rotten at the core of the industry.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

As stated on the 3rd runway thread, I strongly suspect BA are using the current (naturally very bad) situation to offload their Worldwide and Eurofleet crews.

And with cars, GM, Ford, VW covers most of the metal you see on the streets. Not quite as sewn up as Boeing/Airbus, but not wholly dissimilar. And both Boeing and Airbus will be struggling as much as airlines, that’s on top of Boeing’s 737 woes. So there may yet be openings once this shit is done...

 

[2hats]

BA memo suggests they may be considering ending operations at Gatwick as a consequence of the pandemic.

BA may not reopen at Gatwick once pandemic passes

The airline has told staff that it cannot rule out keeping the operation closed indefinitely.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

BA memo suggests they may be considering ending operations at Gatwick as a consequence of the pandemic.

BA may not reopen at Gatwick once pandemic passes

The airline has told staff that it cannot rule out keeping the operation closed indefinitely.

www.bbc.co.uk

Yeah, like weird and that coming after announcing they want to shelve 12,000 jobs, almost as if it is the kind of deflection that you use with five year olds.

Doubly odd that IAG isn’t proposing cuts at Aer Lingus or Iberia...

 

[T & P]

Considering BA has very strongly voiced their opposition to the government bailing out airlines, a cynic could be tempted to wonder if they're hoping to see Virgin go belly up by trying to stop everyone from getting government help, even if it means taking a bigger hit themselves and having to cut operations and jobs.

I find the LGW announcement interesting though. It seems to suggest BA believes demand for air travel will be changed forever, or at least long after the Coronavirus crisis has abated. They could be right of course, particularly regarding business travel as many businesses are likely to be warming up to online meetings. I still believe once the world gets a proper all-clear from Covid there is going to be the mother of all bounces on bucket-and-spade routes and overall leisure travel demand.

 

[T & P]

I've just started a new sci-fi series on Netflix called Into the Night. The overall premise is intriguing but a significant part of the plot in the first episode involves non-pilots having to fly an A320 an emergency, and even though I am no pilot I suspect there might be quite a few inaccuracies/ plot holes regarding the operation of an airliner, which I guess non-pilots would not get.

Anyway, it did make me wonder something: In the Hollywoodesque and improbable scenario of both pilots becoming physically incapacitated early on a flight, on a highly automated plane like an A320 would a layman in the cockpit who followed the right instructions to the letter be likely to see the plane complete the flight and autoland safely without any flying skills or command of the joystick? In other words, just by punching the right numbers/ typing the right commands into a computer? I guess it's more likely that not nowadays in normal conditions, right?

I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of any pilots who end up watching this series. It seems it will mostly take place inside the plane as the passengers are constantly flying away from the danger, so plenty to roll your eyes about. TBF from my limited knowledge I can tell they have made some kind effort to consult an aviation expert. On episode three they suspect a baddie might have climbed into the landing gear well and at least they made a point of refuting the old movie cliche about being able to access the main cabin from the landing gear housing.

 

[DownwardDog]

There are some YT videos with unsupervised non pilots trying land airliners in the sim. None of them made it as far as I can remember.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

There are some YT videos with unsupervised non pilots trying land airliners in the sim. None of them made it as far as I can remember.

I went on a BA 747 simulator for my 40th birthday pressie. Took off from LHR, flew around Canary Wharf and landed back at LHR. Then took off in thick fog, 5 minutes later was on final approach to JFK. Then went to Geneva.

But all I had to do was use the joystick, not controlling the engines or any of the other shit.

Was good fun and if I ever have a spare £14m I’ll get one.

 

[kebabking]

I went solo in a glider 30 years ago, so I'd smash it out of the park.

And then knock up a couple of cabin crew.

 

[likesfish]

Think if everything is working 100% you'd be fine you need someone like Sully when things go wrong and Captain Sully managed to make the right decision and carry it out within seconds
with an Experianced crew in a simulator 1 in ten tries they managed to land the plane at the airport but that was with knowing what was about to happen. Bloke must have had liquid nitrogen in his veins same with this bloke British Airways Flight 9 - Wikipedia
Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them going again. I trust you are not in too much distress.

 

[2hats]

Think if everything is working 100% you'd be fine you need someone like Sully when things go wrong and Captain Sully managed to make the right decision and carry it out within seconds

Need to find a random who hasn't been at the drinks trolley. One who is suitably composed, focussed, alert, spatially aware, vaguely technically minded and capable of selecting the right radio, headset, and finding the PTT button. Knowing the guard frequency might help too. Once that's done it could be possible to coach them down provided the airfield weather is within autoland specs and the ILS is working. As dd mentioned there are videos of supposed joe public being talked down successfully in professional simulators.

with an Experianced crew in a simulator 1 in ten tries they managed to land the plane at the airport but that was with knowing what was about to happen.

Just over half successful landings from thirteen attempts at engines out but no options other than ditching if you have to run through the checklist (which you will).

 

[Teaboy]

There are some YT videos with unsupervised non pilots trying land airliners in the sim. None of them made it as far as I can remember.

Hazy memories of The Krypton Factor.

 

[ffsear]

Quite a few BA a320s stored at Bournemouth Airport.

(think those might be a321's in the back ground)

 

[Lancman]

I only ever experienced one total engine failure in 42 years of flying and this was the result. A good landing is one from which you walk away, this was a good landing.

 

[spitfire]

Ooft.

Love the Tiger Moth.

These are the ones I volunteer on at Duxford. Not at the mo obviously. Sorry to bore on about it again but I do miss it.




And their big sister.

 

[Lancman]

My Cornish wife and I flew in a de Havilland Dragon Rapide like that to the Isles of Scilly for our honeymoon. Beat that for romantic!

 

[ffsear]

Ooft.



These are the ones I volunteer on at Duxford.

What do you do?

 

[spitfire]

What do you do?

Ground crew to Classic Wings, they run a concession at DX, we brief the customers on safety procedures, strap them in, put in the SD card for the video, refuel the planes, clean the oil off during the day. Keep an eye that nothing is falling off or leaking too much, if it is, fetch a grown up. Take the chocks away (wahey), keep an eye when the pilot is doing their mag checks etc. Brief the pilots on timings and any specific customer stuff (pilot/physical disability/learning difficulties etc., we do our best to get everyone up within reason). The great thing about DX is it is quite a lively airfield so we regularly have other stuff like Mustangs etc. flying around. Also the Spitfire flights we run are every hour or so so there's always one of them roaring around. The Harvard is a great bit of kit, big old lump with a very loud engine, sounds great when it's doing a flyby.

I've not been shown properly how to spin up the prop but that's next on the list. That's quite daunting if you like your hands.

The Rapide is actually a "scheduled" flight so we do briefings just like a regular Easyjet flight. We also have to distribute the weight evenly to make sure the plane doesn't go nose down into the runway. that can lead to some very diplomatic conversations.

Classic Wings

IWM DUXFORD WILL BE RE-OPENING FROM 4TH AUGUST so now is the time to book your flight! LIMITED OFFER - All flight vouchers sold up to 31st July will be valid for two years. PLEASE NOTE THAT YOU NEED TO PRE-BOOK YOUR ADMISSION TICKET TO IWM

www.classic-wings.co.uk

 

[spitfire]

My Cornish wife and I flew in a de Havilland Dragon Rapide like that to the Isles of Scilly for our honeymoon. Beat that for romantic!

Took my little girl up last year, she loved it. And when she sees it flying over London she always shouts, "Look it's Daddy's plane!"

The other parents probably think I'm telling her tall tales.

 

[Lancman]

It's enthusiasts like Spitfire that makes Duxford such a wonderful place to visit.

 

[gosub]

Think if everything is working 100% you'd be fine you need someone like Sully when things go wrong and Captain Sully managed to make the right decision and carry it out within seconds
with an Experianced crew in a simulator 1 in ten tries they managed to land the plane at the airport but that was with knowing what was about to happen. Bloke must have had liquid nitrogen in his veins same with this bloke British Airways Flight 9 - Wikipedia
Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them going again. I trust you are not in too much distress.

This. If its just a straightup incapacitated crew thing, you'll most likely make it to where you want to go and for similar underlying reasons why the bloke who forced himself into the cockpit won't (*not all aircraft)

 

[spitfire]

It's enthusiasts like Spitfire that makes Duxford such a wonderful place to visit.

Thanks Lancman very decent of you. It is a great place.

 

[ffsear]

Ground crew to Classic Wings, they run a concession at DX, we brief the customers on safety procedures, strap them in, put in the SD card for the video, refuel the planes, clean the oil off during the day. Keep an eye that nothing is falling off or leaking too much, if it is, fetch a grown up. Take the chocks away (wahey), keep an eye when the pilot is doing their mag checks etc. Brief the pilots on timings and any specific customer stuff (pilot/physical disability/learning difficulties etc., we do our best to get everyone up within reason). The great thing about DX is it is quite a lively airfield so we regularly have other stuff like Mustangs etc. flying around. Also the Spitfire flights we run are every hour or so so there's always one of them roaring around. The Harvard is a great bit of kit, big old lump with a very loud engine, sounds great when it's doing a flyby.

I've not been shown properly how to spin up the prop but that's next on the list. That's quite daunting if you like your hands.

The Rapide is actually a "scheduled" flight so we do briefings just like a regular Easyjet flight. We also have to distribute the weight evenly to make sure the plane doesn't go nose down into the runway. that can lead to some very diplomatic conversations.

Classic Wings

IWM DUXFORD WILL BE RE-OPENING FROM 4TH AUGUST so now is the time to book your flight! LIMITED OFFER - All flight vouchers sold up to 31st July will be valid for two years. PLEASE NOTE THAT YOU NEED TO PRE-BOOK YOUR ADMISSION TICKET TO IWM

www.classic-wings.co.uk

Sounds great! would love to get in something like that.

 

[spitfire]

Sounds great! would love to get in something like that.

They're open to volunteers, you can do as much or as little as you like. If you can get to the airfield by 9am under your own steam then that's pretty much the qualification for getting trained up. It's very relaxed.

 

[ffsear]

They're open to volunteers, you can do as much or as little as you like. If you can get to the airfield by 9am under your own steam then that's pretty much the qualification for getting trained up. It's very relaxed.

It a bit far for me! Buy i live near Kenley areodrome, so want to try an get involved with the gliding club up there.

 

[LDC]

I went solo in a glider 30 years ago, so I'd smash it out of the park.

And then knock up a couple of cabin crew.

 

[LDC]

I only ever experienced one total engine failure in 42 years of flying and this was the result. A good landing is one from which you walk away, this was a good landing.
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You can't get away with that tease, can we have more of a story please!