Gaza under attack yet again.

[smmudge]

I think this guy makes some fair points in the debate about whether Israel does or doesn't help US interests in the ME. Not the best article I've ever read but quite interesting nonetheless
http://www.counterpunch.org/2002/08/20/pro-palestinian-activists-and-the-palestinians/

 

[SpackleFrog]

I think this guy makes some fair points in the debate about whether Israel does or doesn't help US interests in the ME. Not the best article I've ever read but quite interesting nonetheless
http://www.counterpunch.org/2002/08/20/pro-palestinian-activists-and-the-palestinians/

"America is a sap, a duped accomplice."

Oh really? Let me just strap myself in and engage with your stream of consciousness...

 

[belboid]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_lobby_in_the_United_States


AIPAC helps connect donors with candidates, especially to the network of pro-Israel political action committees. AIPAC president Howard Friedman says “AIPAC meets with every candidate running for Congress. These candidates receive in-depth briefings to help them completely understand the complexities of Israel’s predicament and that of the Middle East as a whole. We even ask each candidate to author a ‘position paper’ on their views of the US-Israel relationship – so it’s clear where they stand on the subject.”[43]

they ask for a position paper! The bastards. How could anyone be expected to withstand the power and might of such a piece of, uhh, paper.

Glad we've got that one sorted. So now all we need to do is a hire a better PR company and maybe give the Palestinians an iPad and powerpoint. That'd teach the yanks.

 

[SpackleFrog]

They've been "ignored" for a long time and I suspect will continue to be for a while longer.

Israel certainly isn't a typical client state anymore, although it certainly was just as good and loyal a bulwark against communism as South Korea back in the day. But Israel does act beyond its status and embarrass the US, as at the moment with the Kerry/Obama stuff. They wont be worried about minor diplomatic stuff of course, but the US prefers its partners to be predictable. But just because US patience is running out with Israel, it doesnt mean the relationship will fundamentally change. The existence of the Zionist state remains the preferred option for the US state. Perhaps in the future the US will seek to influence Israeli politics more, in order to secure a more predictable, reliable partner. It wont simply ditch Israel-a totally isolated Israeli state would be dangerously likely to do some Mad Shit.

 

[frogwoman]

They've been "ignored" for a long time and I suspect will continue to be for a while longer.

Israel certainly isn't a typical client state anymore, although it certainly was just as good and loyal a bulwark against communism as South Korea back in the day. But Israel does act beyond its status and embarrass the US, as at the moment with the Kerry/Obama stuff. They wont be worried about minor diplomatic stuff of course, but the US prefers its partners to be predictable. But just because US patience is running out with Israel, it doesnt mean the relationship will fundamentally change. The existence of the Zionist state remains the preferred option for the US state. Perhaps in the future the US will seek to influence Israeli politics more, in order to secure a more predictable, reliable partner. It wont simply ditch Israel-a totally isolated Israeli state would be dangerously likely to do some Mad Shit.

It's a lot like China/North Korea. See North Korea embarrassing China by letting off random nuclear tests, killing babies etc

 

[quiquaquo]

It's a lot like China/North Korea. See North Korea embarrassing China by letting off random nuclear tests, killing babies etc

The PRC shares a border with DPRK, if the DPRK was to collapse the border would be against South Korea (and the US Military).

With Israel it's not the case.

 

[quiquaquo]

Israel has gone so far with killing, expropriation and de facto genocide it might as well go the whole way and just drive all Palestinians out of the Occupied Territories and Gaza and bulldoze it all flat.

Would the world intervene, I think not. The future is dark for us all.

 

[frogwoman]

Despite his tutoring by Dr Luntz, Mr Dermer only speaks these days to the converted. Attending a Christians United for Israel Summit in Washington he replied to protesters who called him a “war criminal” by saying that “the truth is that the Israeli Defence Forces should be given a Nobel Peace Prize”. Stuff like this may explain why a Gallup poll shows that among Americans aged between 18 and 29 some 51 per cent said Israel’s actions were unjustified while only 23 per cent said they were.

 

[uk benzo]

Fucking breaks my heart.

pic.twitter.com/HYZv2pHOjy

 

[SpackleFrog]

The PRC shares a border with DPRK, if the DPRK was to collapse the border would be against South Korea (and the US Military).

With Israel it's not the case.

Israel is a strong US ally which contributes to the counter-balancing of not-such-a-strong ally Iran, the natural regional power in the strategically important Middle East. It's pretty similar.

Froggie, are you gonna do a parody North Korea/Israel blog or what? The reasons to do so are multiplying every second.

 

[frogwoman]

The shining sun of Sharonism-Netanyahuism thought will never go down on Tel Aviv.

I will, just tied up with a few other things at the mo.

 

[hipipol]

"A monthly opinion poll of about 600 Israeli Jews by Tel Aviv University suggests 97% support the current military operation."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28558433
The poll itself, very depressing......
http://en.idi.org.il/media/3657328/Peace_Index_Data_July_2014-Eng.pdf

 

[SpackleFrog]

Found this fascinating by the way, its a translation of an article from the Socialist Struggle Movement in Israel/Palestine - best on the ground piece I've read. Written by someone called Shahar Benhorin.

http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/ar...n-crisis-mass-action-needed-to-stop-bloodshed

Alternatively if you're too depressed to read analysis I find this song helps:

 

[Doctor Carrot]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/jehadels

Is this working for anyone???

Works for me. Came up much quicker than last night. Caught the end of an announcement about the generator in the building...

E2A: Wait. Appears to be a 37-minute pre-record, if I interpret the widget correctly... Jehad posted pre-records 5 hours ago, 21 hours ago...

It is finally working for me after a few silly adverts. However I think it is just a pre-recorded film that lasts for 38 seconds.

(((frogwoman)))

Hmm, not for me. It's a 37 minute stream from earlier - either earlier tonight or from last night, can't tell. It still says 'off air' in the bottom right corner.

Edit: Yes, the one that auto-plays for me is the one listed as being from 5 hours ago (click on 'videos' instead of 'social stream' on the right to get a list of old recordings).

This bloke streams as and when he can and when power permits. Go in with ad blocker on and you won't get any ads before the stream starts. As I said earlier I do feel like a bit of a gawping twat when I watch sometimes but he does actually want people there to see it. Just don't read the social stream because you'll want to rip your own head off in despair!

 

[weltweit]

Destroying the power plant is likely to be to cut off Gaza even more but I hope the hospitals have generators and fuel for them, otherwise it was a wholly murderous act!

 

[IC3D]

While on this subject, I posted earlier about potential Israeli Egyptian gas deals. Here is some more reading

Meanwhile, Israel has made successive discoveries in recent years - such as the Leviathan field estimated to hold 18 trillion cubic feet of natural gas - which could transform the country from energy importer into aspiring energy exporter with ambitions to supply Europe, Jordan and Egypt.
The chief obstacle is that much of the 122 trillion cubic feet of gas and 1.6 billion barrels of oil in the Levant Basin Province lies in territorial waters where borders are hotly disputed between Israel, Syria, Lebanon, Gaza and Cyprus.

Israel's long-term goal "besides preventing the Palestinians from exploiting their own resources, is to integrate the gas fields off Gaza into the adjacent Israeli offshore installations."
This is part of a wider strategy of "separating the Palestinians from their land and natural resources in order to exploit them, and, as a consequence, blocking Palestinian economic development.
"Despite all formal agreements to the contrary, Israel continues to manage all the natural resources nominally under the jurisdiction of the PA, from land and water to maritime and hydrocarbon resources."

Link

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Destroying the power plant is likely to be to cut off Gaza even more but I hope the hospitals have generators and fuel for them, otherwise it was a wholly murderous act!

It's a wholly murderous act anyway. There's no justification for hitting the power plant. It's just plain terrorism and an attack on the civilian population. Same as their attack on the water and sewerage systems. They even attacked the finance ministry FFS so Hamas can't collect taxes and administer the strip effectively.

 

[hipipol]

Israel is a strong US ally which contributes to the counter-balancing of not-such-a-strong ally Iran, the natural regional power in the strategically important Middle East. It's pretty similar.

Froggie, are you gonna do a parody North Korea/Israel blog or what? The reasons to do so are multiplying every second.

Dont agree with Iran being the "Natural regional power"
Iran is only interested in other Shia at the moment in Iraq, Syria and Lebanon, which given the current parlous state of those places gives them enough to worry about.Irans stance on Israel is to a degree a "unity with other Muslims" play - which they have to do - but mainly I think because they perceive Israel as a proxy for the US, for who they reserve their most extreme prejudice.
The real power in the area is Saudi. It doesn't flex its muscles directly, though it is extremely well armed, but rather thru many proxies which it funds. Equally, now that the Brotherhood are being rounded up and executed em mass by the State, they getting very cosy with Egypt again.Thats the Sunni axis

 

[SpackleFrog]

Dont agree with Iran being the "Natural regional power"
Iran is only interested in other Shia at the moment in Iraq, Syria and Lebanon, which given the current parlous state of those places gives them enough to worry about.Irans stance on Israel is to a degree a "unity with other Muslims" play - which they have to do - but mainly I think because they perceive Israel as a proxy for the US, for who they reserve their most extreme prejudice.
The real power in the area is Saudi. It doesn't flex its muscles directly, though it is extremely well armed, but rather thru many proxies which it funds. Equally, now that the Brotherhood are being rounded up and executed em mass by the State, they getting very cosy with Egypt again.Thats the Sunni axis

Well, you wouldn't would you? Saudi Arabia does very well out of its relationship with the US, Iran is a regional power on its own. It has massive oil and gas reserves, its a fully industrialised economy and its fookin massive. Sectarian divides don't dictate power and alliances, they justify said power and alliances.

 

[SpackleFrog]

http://www.fbu.org.uk/news/2014/07/fbu-gaza-statement/

 

[SpackleFrog]

Don't claim to understand this, never mind be able to judge its authenticity, but it seems significant

http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/07/chinese-military-hacked-israels-iron-dome/

 

[laptop]

Don't claim to understand this, never mind be able to judge its authenticity, but it seems significant

http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/07/chinese-military-hacked-israels-iron-dome/

Misleading headline. What the source actually alleges is that Chinese hackers stole the plans for Iron Dome. That might, but likely would not, make it easier to hack the system itself.

 

[likesfish]

If someones chucking high explosive your way the average person isnt going to be too upset that they are getting hammered and losing in the exchange.

That said the idf and israeli leadership should realize even killing 90% of hamas won't stop imas or jmas,kmas etc from springing up.

 

[agricola]

Israel has done an awful lot for the US, one example would be it significantly weakened arab nationalism on the back of the Six-Day war, eventually allowing the US to co-opt Egypt as a client state.

American Jews only make up 2% of the population. and US support for Israel predates the support given by evangelicals and doesn't explain why Democrats have historically supported Israel as much if not more than the Republicans. How could such a small population of Americans force the US government to act in a way detrimental to it's interests?

Arab nationalism wouldnt have taken the form that it did without Israel being brought into being and the successive wars against it, though - they could easily have taken a Kemalist path and its very unlikely any of them would have sided with the Soviets without a clear reason to do so. Nor would America have needed to turn Egypt into a client state.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Arab nationalism wouldnt have taken the form that it did without Israel being brought into being and the successive wars against it, though - they could easily have taken a Kemalist path and its very unlikely any of them would have sided with the Soviets without a clear reason to do so. Nor would America have needed to turn Egypt into a client state.

Any deviation from hardline anti-communism pretty much resulted in neccessary alliances with the Soviets in the cold war period.

 

[agricola]

Any deviation from hardline anti-communism pretty much resulted in neccessary alliances with the Soviets in the cold war period.

They would probably all have been anti-communist, though.

 

[frogwoman]

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/n...rimes-as-polls-show-sympathy-for-palestinians

 

[SpackleFrog]

They would probably all have been anti-communist, though.

To be fair nationalisation and communism were treated in much the same why by the US, so it depends whose perspective you look at it from.

 

[agricola]

Good God - Peter Lerner just said on BBC News that Hamas werent terrorists, they were "semi state, almost a military" when explaining why the IDF hit the UN school earlier today, and why Hamas were able to carry out the Nahal Oz attack a couple of days ago.

edit: the rest of the interview was a bit of a car crash though, Lerner claiming that they had given warnings to people to leave before bombing, the BBC newsreader replying by pointing out that most of those in the school had followed the IDF advice to leave, only in order to be blown up in the school they had evacuated to.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I am now wondering who faked it and why?

E2a
a possible explanation?

As to why, the state of Israel has traditionally made out like gangbusters under Republican administrations, with a slightly (and it is only slightly) more sane attitude by Democrat admins. Why wouldn't elements in favour of the state of Israel want to shit over the Democrats?