Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
No. They're idiots who think:
1) that it can play a role in a process that can remove the blockade 2) it can win them support, as would playing a key role in the process that removes the blockade.
Gaza under attack yet again.
- Thread starter Mr.Bishie
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No. They're idiots who think:
1) that it can play a role in a process that can remove the blockade 2) it can win them support, as would playing a key role in the process that removes the blockade.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
End the shelling on what basis though? One that sets the ground for it to happen once Palestinian political unity looks on the agenda? The Israeli state doesn't call this lawn mowing for no reason. If the shelling stops on the same basis as before it will happen again in 6 or so years.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Yeah, but it rather depends with whom you are expressing solidarity; the military brigades of the Government might have decided on the strategic worth of resuming rocket attacks, but that military action doesn't necessarily deserve our support. I would imagine that a substantial proportion of solidarity campaigners, (outside of Palestine), do so in support of the Palestinian people and not with the intent of unconditional support for their government or 'military'.
I feel that there must be many Gaza residents who's hearts were not full of joy when they heard the rockets fired this morning; they know what will happen next.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Well, let's have a look at Hamas record in winning elections and popular support. Oh, they won the 2006 elections. So their actions win them popular support. As for playing a role in the process that removes the blockade - of course it can, this will only happen when it's forced on Israel, and that will likely involve negotiations with outside powers - that is never going to happen if Israel is not challenged given the plan is to freeze the whole situation in aspic forever.
Limerick Red
Мы вас похороним!
Not to forget that the pretext to the Zionist attacks was the Hamas / fatah talks with Hamas being brought closer to the PLO. The Zionist are doing what they see as necessary to avoid having a somewhat politically homogenous Gaza and West Bank.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
we've been through this before and the zionist entity would simply find other reasons to do what they want to do anywa6y
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Do you think they'd have voted for Hamas if they could have foreseen what's happening now?
What has militant hamas done for Gaza since 2006?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
d'you think germans would have voted for hitler if they'd known where it would end?
d'you think you'd have acted somewhat differently in your youth if you'd known how you were going to end up?
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Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
No, to both.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Sorry, where did i argue that hamas has done a damn thing for Gaza? I said that their actions have won them popular support. And they'll be coming out of this with increased support - hey maybe that's one motivation behind their actions, what do you think?. Putin has increased his support off the back of the Ukraine crisis - does saying this mean i think he's done great things for the people of ukraine and russia? Or does it mean that i'm recognising a political fact rather than endorsing those actions. Think and read a bit more clearly please - and try and avoid such ridiculous questions as that opening line.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
"Militant" Hamas. I was clear about that.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
There is no non-militant hamas. There are actions that militant hamas take that you approve of.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
So there are no Hamas supporters opposed to Al Quassam?
Clear about what? Hamas is a political party that governs the Ghazza strip. Like most governing parties, they have various arms that undertake different functions including defence- in this case against regular onslaughts from the zionist entity. Which answers your question- the Hamas arm that functions in a limited military capacity defends the Palestinians in Ghazza from the barbarity of the zionist entity.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
What a great job they're doing.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Jesus christ, when did you turn into johnny canuck? Of course there are hamas supporters who oppose them, the same as there are those who think the leadership has gone soft. The point though is that disagreement takes places within and accepts the role/function etc of the militant organisation hamas
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
Inflicting 63 military deaths on Israel? I'd say that's a pretty good job actually because that's way higher than the Israeli public expected or were willing to accept.
iROBOT
CURRENTLY RE-BOOTING
63 deaths to how many on the Gaza side, 1400+? That's not much of a protection.
Two points:
1. The Palestinians are a proud group of people. After 60 odd years they have not rolled over and let the zionist entity kill them off/erase their identity. As such, I guarantee the majority of Palestinians are happy to support Hamas who are fighting against a goliath that would quite gladly shit on them and kill them even if Hamas did not exist.
2. The zionist entity have brutally attacked the Ghazzan people even when Hamas's militiary wing were militarily quiet.
iROBOT
CURRENTLY RE-BOOTING
Jordan is (I belive) 40% Palestian? So I dont think (of all the things they are in danger from) "losing" their "identity is one of them
That is precisely the point, the zionist entity does not care who is in power and the nature of the deaths and casualties it is incurring. They have committed such acts without provocation in the past (Ghazza, Southern Lebanon). You are following the zionist talking points when invoking the "why are Hamas fighting" argument. The zionist entity will always try to crush the Palestinians regardless of who is governing the zionist entity created bantustans/ghettos. So it is better trying to resist.
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
It is in the long run because it puts internal pressure on the Israeli government. It's not a simple case of protection in the sense you're thinking of because you know as well as I do their upgraded fireworks are no match for Israel's drones, one ton bombs and so on.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
So by extension there will be people who voted for hamas in Gaza who deplore the rocket attacks and the response they're getting.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
and... are you going anywhere with this?
iROBOT
CURRENTLY RE-BOOTING
I know why hamas is fighting. To them, Isreal is a illigitmate country and their avowed aim is it's total iradication.
If the Hezbollah followed your logic, Southern Lebanon would still be under the occupation of the zionist entity.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Are they members of hamas? How does people voting for them - or not - change the fact that it is a militant organisation? How does you voting lib-dem but not supporting all their policies mean that they're not an ideologically neo-liberal party?
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Given that Kahane was some sort of FBI informer (and perhaps more) one has to wonder how much of his influence was due to the synergy of his ideology with initiatives to combat socialism in shape of the Kibbutz movement, alongside efforts to combat socialism in the shape of Fatah by other means.
Are you taking the piss?
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