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Gaza under attack yet again.

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bubblesmcgrath said:
Is this not because the Israelis have an extremely effective defence mechanism in the iron dome?
2874 rockets fired into Israel in July.
Without the "iron dome" would these rockets have been "statistically nothing to fear"?
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Iron Dome has been around for a couple of years (since 2011).
"Rockets" have been fired at Israel since 1991.
The death-toll from those rockets is under 100, in all that time.

So, exactly as I said, "statistically nothing to fear".

BTW If the PIRA had launched 2874 rockets at the centre of London from 30miles away I think that there would certainly have been damage and loss of life......
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There's quite a difference in population density between Israel and London and the home counties.



Bit like the Hamas charter then. ...eh?
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Nothing like the HAMAS charter.

If you're going to challenge people, don't do so from "talking points" that you've read, do it from actual knowledge that you possess. It makes you look less foolish.
 
"‏@press221
Israel murdured 1865 palestinians, injured 9470 other since begining israeli agression on #gaza."

BuM_NvWIAAAxisZ.jpg:large
 
ViolentPanda said:
Bullshit, isn't it? :)
It's not as if Hitler didn't make his plans for the entire Jewish "race" absolutely clear in Mein Kampf - no Jews were to be left alive, not even in order to provide convenient examples of their own supposed perfidy.
Click to expand...
Plus the Germans were defeated before the completion of the Final Solution anyway, so unless he was quoting from beyond the grave, its a disgusting made up quote.
 
bubblesmcgrath said:
BTW If the PIRA had launched 2874 rockets at the centre of London from 30miles away I think that there would certainly have been damage and loss of life......
Click to expand...
undoubtedly. but not in the centre of london. the furthest i'm aware of an ira mortar going is a couple of hundred metres in whitehall in 1991, although the mortars at heathrow may have travelled a little further. but nothing, i regret, approaching 30 miles.
 
ViolentPanda said:
Iron Dome has been around for a couple of years (since 2011).
"Rockets" have been fired at Israel since 1991.
The death-toll from those rockets is under 100, in all that time.

So, exactly as I said, "statistically nothing to fear".

There's quite a difference in population density between Israel and London and the home counties.

Nothing like the HAMAS charter.

If you're going to challenge people, don't do so from "talking points" that you've read, do it from actual knowledge that you possess. It makes you look less foolish.
Click to expand...

Hamas charter.
"Hamas has been looking forward to implement Allah’s promise whatever time it might take. The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad, which is a Jewish tree (cited by Bukhari and Muslim)."


As you know Israel has had to defend against more than Hamas over it's history

Between 1948 and 1997, 20,093 israeli soldiers were killed in combat, 75,000 Israelis were wounded, and nearly 100,000 Israelis were considered disabled army vets. Seven armed conflicts / campaigns /defence...whatever. Some fought alongside allies including tge UK. Others fought on their own.

Palestinian war.
Suez crisis.
Six day war
War of attrition
Yom Kippur
Lebanon
First intifada
Second intifada

The list goes on....
I'm quoting this because the current situation needs to be viewed in the context of Israels history...at the moment it's being regarded as an isolated thing going back a few years.

What is frightening about the current situation is the lack of a viable solution that will work..permanently.
It looks hopeless.
 
bubblesmcgrath said:
Hamas charter.
"Hamas has been looking forward to implement Allah’s promise whatever time it might take. The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad, which is a Jewish tree (cited by Bukhari and Muslim)."


As you know Israel has had to defend against more than Hamas over it's history

Between 1948 and 1997, 20,093 israeli soldiers were killed in combat, 75,000 Israelis were wounded, and nearly 100,000 Israelis were considered disabled army vets. Seven armed conflicts / campaigns /defence...whatever. Some fought alongside allies including tge UK. Others fought on their own.

Palestinian war.
Suez crisis.
Six day war
War of attrition
Yom Kippur
Lebanon
First intifada
Second intifada

The list goes on....
I'm quoting this because the current situation needs to be viewed in the context of Israels history...at the moment it's being regarded as an isolated thing going back a few years.

What is frightening about the current situation is the lack of a viable solution that will work..permanently.
It looks hopeless.
Click to expand...
do you have a source for that?
 
as bad as Hamas's charter is, how many people have they killed compared with Israel? And someone can say that they want to kill you however much they say it isn't the same as actually doing it unless Hamas are like the candyman, if you talk about the charter enough times it will happen
 
bubblesmcgrath said:
Is this not because the Israelis have an extremely effective defence mechanism in the iron dome?
2874 rockets fired into Israel in July.
Without the "iron dome" would these rockets have been "statistically nothing to fear"?

BTW If the PIRA had launched 2874 rockets at the centre of London from 30miles away I think that there would certainly have been damage and loss of life......

Bit like the Hamas charter then. ...eh?
Click to expand...

PIRA might well have done that - if only the British Army had within living memory invaded Northern Ireland, forced almost the entire Catholic population to relocate to Crawley, imprisoned them there, cut them off from almost all supplies beyond that needed for basic existence and then proceeded to blow up a thousand or so of them every three or four years. PIRA would also probably want to destroy the British state in that context as well.
 
Gaza: Israeli Soldiers Shoot and Kill Fleeing Civilians

Israeli forces in the southern Gaza town of Khuza’a fired on and killed civilians in apparent violation of the laws of war in several incidents between July 23 and 25, 2014. Deliberate attacks on civilians who are not participating in the fighting are war crimes.

Seven Palestinians who had fled Khuza’a described to Human Rights Watch the grave dangers that civilians have faced in trying to flee the town, near the Israeli border, to seek safety in Khan Younis. These included repeated shelling that struck apparent civilian structures, lack of access to necessary medical care, and the threat of attack from Israeli forces as they tried to leave the area

Khuza’a, which has a population of about 10,000, was the scene of fighting between Israeli forces and Palestinian armed groups during an Israeli ground offensive in the area on July 23, Israeli news media reported. Israeli forces provided general warnings to Khuza’a residents to leave the area prior to July 21. While the laws of war encourage “advance, effective warnings” of attacks, the failure of civilians to abide by warnings does not make them lawful targets of attack – for obvious reasons, since many people do not flee because of infirmity, fear, lack of a place to go, or any number of other reasons. The remaining presence of such civilians despite a warning to flee cannot be ignored when attacks are carried out, as Israeli forces have done previously.
Click to expand...

Which, to my mind definitely puts the attack to 'rescue' Hadar Goldin in the same category. War crimes.
 
agricola said:
PIRA might well have done that - if only the British Army had within living memory invaded Northern Ireland, forced almost the entire Catholic population to relocate to Crawley, imprisoned them there, cut them off from almost all supplies beyond that needed for basic existence and then proceeded to blow up a thousand or so of them every three or four years. PIRA would also probably want to destroy the British state in that context as well.
Click to expand...

And very likely, under those circumstances, the suggestion to PIRA that its pronouncements really ought to distinguish between "the British State" and adherents of its official religion would have fallen on deaf ears.
 
uk benzo said:
From the Guardian live blog:

Netanyahu: 'We have no intention of attacking the residents of Gaza'
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"We have no intention of attacking the residents of Gaza. In practice, it is Hamas that is attacking them and denying them humanitarian aid. I think that the international community needs to strongly condemn Hamas and also demand, just as we are demanding, that the rehabilitation of Gaza be linked to its demilitarisation."
Click to expand...

What a card that man is!
 
bubblesmcgrath said:
Hamas charter.
"Hamas has been looking forward to implement Allah’s promise whatever time it might take. The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad, which is a Jewish tree (cited by Bukhari and Muslim)."
Click to expand...

it's good to see that you've not read the thread properly, and have either missed or ignored where people have pointed out that most extant translations of the HAMAS charter are from a source with known pro-Zionist links.

As you know Israel has had to defend against more than Hamas over it's history

Between 1948 and 1997, 20,093 israeli soldiers were killed in combat, 75,000 Israelis were wounded, and nearly 100,000 Israelis were considered disabled army vets. Seven armed conflicts / campaigns /defence...whatever. Some fought alongside allies including tge UK. Others fought on their own.

Palestinian war.
Suez crisis.
Six day war
War of attrition
Yom Kippur
Lebanon
First intifada
Second intifada

The list goes on....
Click to expand...

Jesus, what a load of shite.
Suez was a plot between the UK, the French and Israel. It wasn't a "war" or "conflict" in any meaningful sense of the phrase, it was an attempted land grab, and in terms of the aggressors, it cost them fuck-all in soldiers.
Lebanon was an invasion of someone elses' sovereign territory.
The first intifada wasn't a war, it was a denial of labour and services.

I mean really, if you're going to compile lists, at least do a bit of digging first. :facepalm:

I'm quoting this because the current situation needs to be viewed in the context of Israels history...at the moment it's being regarded as an isolated thing going back a few years.
Click to expand...

No it isn't. It's been mentioned OVER AND OVER AGAIN on this thread that the context of the issues lie precisely with the establishment of the state of Israel as a Zionist state for Jews. Read the declaration of independence; read the various anti-Palestinian outpourings from Israel's founding politicians and militarists. Every fucker and his uncle knows this is nothing to do with only "ggoing back a few years".

What is frightening about the current situation is the lack of a viable solution that will work..permanently.
It looks hopeless.
Click to expand...

Because it will be hopeless, for as long as the state of Israel is allowed to continue slowly liquidating the non-Jew inhabitants of the Occupied Territories.
 
ViolentPanda said:
Because it will be hopeless, for as long as the state of Israel is allowed to continue slowly liquidating the non-Jew inhabitants of the Occupied Territories.
Click to expand...
i for one am not at all persuaded that to be any effective way to defend your population, holy sites, and patriarchal tombs, either.
 
bubblesmcgrath said:
As you know Israel has had to defend against more than Hamas over it's history

Between 1948 and 1997, 20,093 israeli soldiers were killed in combat, 75,000 Israelis were wounded, and nearly 100,000 Israelis were considered disabled army vets. Seven armed conflicts / campaigns /defence...whatever. Some fought alongside allies including tge UK. Others fought on their own.

Palestinian war.
Suez crisis.
Six day war
War of attrition
Yom Kippur
Lebanon
First intifada
Second intifada

The list goes on....
I'm quoting this because the current situation needs to be viewed in the context of Israels history...at the moment it's being regarded as an isolated thing going back a few years.
Click to expand...

"Israel's history" isn't one thing, but several different narratives, all ideological, with more recent ones beginning to challenge the traditional "Israel was just defending itself" one. Like this guy's (ok so it's quite long, first 45 mins of this vid, but it's very interesting if you get the chance to watch it)

 
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