G20: Getting to the truth- the death of Ian Tomlinson RIP
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Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
I'd laugh if it weren't so sad. Still, we can at least be sure that the Scientologists won't be found guilty of anything if the City police are running it.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Lets look at what the original police statement actually said (or this), shall we?
So no "hail", no "pelted with bottles" - just a statement that is not the heap of lies you think it is, but then of course you think it is something else entirely....
Maybe i am being thick here, it's fairly clear to me having been near the incident and after reading others observations. 1, maybe 2 plastic bottles were thrown, not capable of causing any harm to a human. All across the country tonight millions of plastic bottles will be thrown at music gigs. Personally i find it annoying especially when one is full of 'something' and it lands on me!
Typical concert in England
winjer
holocene death beat
No it isn't, the picture of him walking is taken moments later.
None of them are strictly speaking riot police, some are Level Two 'scuffle' police, some are FIT and some are dog handlers.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Hurrah for the bold text! At least we now get you using the actual statement for criticism, rather than the one you got all het up about.
As for whether or not, or why, he was moved - there could be a number of reasons for it. Were you there?
winjer
holocene death beat
The ambulances were held up by the BTP line which was by then at the junction of Cornhill and Bishopsgate, next to David Clulow opticians, as shown on 'davehighbury's
This wasn't the main cordon, which was still in place at Royal Exchange, this was the police chasing people away from the cordon, this particular group was eventually chased all the way across London Bridge around 8pm.
Isn't the public order medic course a whole two days, hardly 'paramedics'.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Plus several days ELS training that everyone does, and possibly more than that (given that the photo of Tomlinson being treated shows a Sgt treating him, who one imagines will have had the bit extra of ELS training that custody sgts get). Anyway, my point was not that they were paramedics, but rather that they might well have known more about CPR than the LAS operator did.
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
as an aside (and with no pictorial evidence), the police medics looked scarier than the riot cops almost, they're tooled and armoured up to the max.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
I think the main issue is media manipulation here. The initial 'police source' PR statements seem calculated to mislead the public about what was happening and to portray the demonstrators in an extremely unfavourable light, while portraying the cops in a favourable one.
We've seen previous cases where a similar thing has happened, for example the initial perception created via media briefings that JC Menezes was 'wearing a bulky jacket with wires sticking out and behaving suspiciously' ...
We've also seen that the initial media impression has a tendency to stick in the minds of the general public, unless they make the effort to look, in which case the impression initially conveyed turns out to be misleading.
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
well, putting aside the media, the "official" investigation into his death was conducted with a great amount of haste imo, and came up with a very "easy" verdict in many ways.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
I would venture to predict that the same will be the case here.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
apologies, I'd missed that earlier post about this.
my point wasn't that the LAS operator might have known more about CPR than the police medics, it was that the LAS operator was more than likely wanting to get advice from the police on the ground about the best route for the ambulance to take, as well as comfirming that they had made any police lines aware that the ambulance was coming through, and where to direct it.
Thinking about it now though, I suppose it's quite likely that the police control room had also requested an ambulance be sent seperately and was liasing with a different dispatcher, which may explain why the police didn't think it necessary to take the phone... I still think it'd have been good practice for them to have spoken with the dispatcher who was sending the ambulance in response to the call from the public, as it's quite possible that ambulance was dispatched before the other one, and could therefore have been at the scene faster.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Perhaps, though its worth pointing out that its very questionable whether any of the officers who went to Tomlinson's aid would have known about the best way into that area for the LAS. Usually the only people who would would be in the control room, in this case GT (or as Sky insisted upon calling it, Gold Control) who should have told LAS the best route and advised those units on cordons that an ambulance was on the way.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Or the cops they could have used their own initiative and got the fuck out of the way of an emergency ambulance just like everybody else does ....
lostexpectation
New Member
somebody needs to do a study on the effects of kettle, more minor injuries and health and safety issues.
one was a baby that died of natural causes, the other was a man who all the evidence is pointing to having died as a direct result of police actions.
I hope you're not suggesting we should be campaigning to illiminate death entirely? I think that'd be a tad unrealistic a demand even for me and enumbers
In his unedited post enumbers was speaking of having respect for the dead yet he clearly has none.
editor
hiraethified
In a time honoured tactic, and one that they seem to get away with time after time (see: Hillsborough, Mayday 'attempted murder' etc etc).
This is our unbiased version of events
It only took 4 minutes of interview for that to go out the windowcan not be arsed with this any more, a man is dead and you are saying bollocoks, i hold human life in such low regard read back your post on this topic fucking wanker:
lopsidedbunny
Active Member
Ditto...
free spirit
more tea vicar?
I've had my fair share of disagreements with mr enumbers, so I'll not be defending every post he's written on here if that's ok with you.
fact is though that you're now acting as an apologist for the police in a situation where their brutality at a demonstration has led to the death of someone who by all accounts was just an innocent bystander who was just trying to get home. I think you need to seriously consider whether that's a position you're comfortable with holding.
I'm no big fan of the police,not by any means.But they are a necessary evil
I just can't help but think if it hadn't been for the likes of enumbers and a small following of knuckle scrapers who think it's there god given right to be violent in public that this bloke may well not be dead.
I think you,enumbers,should have a look at the bigger picture and what the consequences of your fellow knuckle scrapers actions have caused....You want anarchy
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
More like the fault of the knuckle scraping cops who think its their god given right to order people around and who then en-act that with intimidaiton and violence.
I cant imagine anyone was in fear of the protestors last week, thousands were in (justified) fear of the cops.
No shit
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
I find it hard to understand why agricola and badco would want to try so hard to create hypothetical scenarios in which the police story could be true.
Why do some folks just keep coming back to the hand that beats them, in some disgustingly pathetic deference of superior physical force?
After all, that's all the police actually have going for them.
Why do some folks just keep coming back to the hand that beats them, in some disgustingly pathetic deference of superior physical force?
After all, that's all the police actually have going for them.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Cos the 1st one's an Old Bill and the 2nd one is an apologist for the Old Bill.
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