G20: Getting to the truth- the death of Ian Tomlinson RIP

[Paulie Tandoori]

Home Secretary has called for a swift inquiry now.

well, at least she's been watching more appropriate home movies by the sound of it......

 

[pesh]

Sky news covering this pretty fairly... just had the video in full, as well as video of Ian after he collapsed before the police got to him, then of the police treating him and of the ambulance taking him away, with interviews of the protesters who came to his aid stating the police claim to have been hit by a barrage of bottles 'was simply not the case'

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

The BBC is suddenly getting all balanced too, with lots of people being quoted with eye witness accounts of general goonthuggery.

Let's see how long this lasts. We need to know ASAP that the officer(s) concerned have been suspended.

 

[tangentlama]

Didn't the police make deleting camera pictures a condition of being allowed to leave the cordon?
Effectively, removing evidence of any crimes of assault that might have been captured on camera.

 

[winjer]

No, there were sporadic incidents with police doing that, but nothing blanket.

 

[harpo]

Aren't they trying to push through a law whereby any photography or videoing of the police will be classed as 'terrorism'?

 

[Kaka Tim]

btw - this isn't new behavouir by the cops.

Their way they acted during the 80s was consideralby worse (miners strike, wapping and the beanfield bring the most notorious examples). Then I think the drubbing they got at the poll tax riot casued them to refrain from baton charging demonstrators so often.

Over the last 10 -15 years they've made far more use of kettles and cameras - whilst donning a lot more body armour.

However over the past year or so they definitely have got more 'aggro' - they're behavour at last summers climate camp was a lot more aggressive than the previous year.

I think last weeks policing was designed to 'send a message' - as they fear an upsurge in public anger due to recession, unemployment and grand larceny by the banks. Of ourse they have now added to the likely hood of more violent protests by their actions last week. The reason the poll tax riot was so fierce was that lots of people saw it as a opportunity for revenge on thatchers brutal goon squad.

It may be that the reaction to the death of mr tomlinson will deter the cops from getting more violent - but we shall see. This years climate camp and mayday will be interesting ...

 

[winjer]

Mmm, look at all those donuts under their chin. They need the kettle, 'cos it's not like they're gonna catch anyone!

In fairness, he did alright at the olympics:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hughes_leglise/2393439917/
(cop on the right is same as cop on left in the FIT pic)

 

[Callie]

No, there were sporadic incidents with police doing that, but nothing blanket.

I don't think sporadic incidents should have been allowed. Gits.

I wonder if sporadic could also mean targetted eg that person has footage of us behaving in a certain way, lets get rid of it?

I do hope more people come forward with similar footage - I think anyone that has ever been to a protest will know that it happens but this seems like the ideal time to bring it to the general publics attention.

I do hope something happens about this. I eagerly await CCTV footage too - there simply MUST be some, mustn't there?

I would love to hear what justification there is for treating Mr Tomlinson in this manner. I think they DO have to justify their actions.

I'm a little saddened by the lack of media interest in this too - someone died possibly as a result of police actions and there was virtually nothing on the BBC news this morning.

 

[winjer]

Aren't they trying to push through a law whereby any photography or videoing of the police will be classed as 'terrorism'?

NO. There is new law already in force which some police are using to try class it as that, but it doesn't.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/jt200809/jtselect/jtrights/47/4707.htm#a24

 

[butchersapron]

Victoria Derbyshire currently doing her best to smear protestors on radio 5 and turn her show into the the poor OB, no wonder they snapped under such severe pressure hour...

 

[winjer]

I don't think sporadic incidents should have been allowed. Gits.

Agree totally.

I wonder if sporadic could also mean targetted eg that person has footage of us behaving in a certain way, lets get rid of it?

Seemed to be more personalised - sort of We already hate you, we'll fuck up your job - from the people I've spoken to.

 

[DM Andy]

Didn't the police make deleting camera pictures a condition of being allowed to leave the cordon?
Effectively, removing evidence of any crimes of assault that might have been captured on camera.

It's interesting that the video footage was taken by a fund manager rather than by a protester. It's possible that the person (and thanks to him or her for taking the time to record what the police were doing) was able to go back to their workplace and escape the kettle that way.

 

[AKA pseudonym]

Sir Paul Stephenson, the Scotland Yard chief, has admitted to having "concerns" over damning video footage which shows Ian Tomlinson being shoved to the ground by a police officer minutes before he died at the London G20 protests

Telegraph


Mr Tomlinson's son, Paul King:

"We want answers: why? Ian clearly had his arms in his pockets and back towards the police. There is no need for them to step in towards him. It clearly shows that Ian did have an altercation. Now we can say, yes he did. Up until now it has been 'if'. But now we've seen it, we want answers."

 

[shaman75]

I think last weeks policing was designed to 'send a message' - as they fear an upsurge in public anger due to recession, unemployment and grand larceny by the banks. Of ourse they have now added to the likely hood of more violent protests by their actions last week.

Exactly. They announced to the media about their fears of a Summer Of Rage. Then they warned about the G20 protests, highlighting it as something that could kickstart the Summer Of Rage.

All they seem to have done is bring the idea of protest to many, something that the detailed guides in newspapers helped coordinate and now given them even more reason to protest.

Something has to change here. But will it be brought about by investigation and campaigns, or violence and disorder on the streets?

 

[Callie]

Victoria Derbyshire currently doing her best to smear protestors on radio 5 and turn her show into the the poor OB, no wonder they snapped under such severe pressure hour...

yeah i mean those half a dozen stood around with no protesters within - what 10-15 meters? look really pressured, they were practically under constant attack.

It is their job to deal with such situations professionally and not to lash out.

 

[Thora]

I do hope something happens about this. I eagerly await CCTV footage too - there simply MUST be some, mustn't there?

Yeah, there must be - there are hundreds of cameras in the city! I bet if it was a copper who died of natural causes they'd have found plenty of CCTV footage by now

 

[editor]

btw - this isn't new behavouir by the cops.

Their way they acted during the 80s was consideralby worse (miners strike, wapping and the beanfield bring the most notorious examples). Then I think the drubbing they got at the poll tax riot casued them to refrain from baton charging demonstrators so often.

Over the last 10 -15 years they've made far more use of kettles and cameras - whilst donning a lot more body armour.

They've been doing it at football for years on end...

 

[Callie]

Yeah, there must be - there are hundreds of cameras in the city! I bet if it was a copper who died of natural causes they'd have found plenty of CCTV footage by now

i don't know if because of the possible severity of this situation it would mean any CCTV footage would be held as evidence?

I wonder how many CCTV cameras the Mont Blanc shop it happened outside has? I wonder how you would find out?

 

[ska invita]

It may be that the reaction to the death of mr tomlinson will deter the cops from getting more violent

no chance

They've been doing it at football for years on end...

best interview on the day was with a suit, asked 'aren't you scared (of the protestors, even though you're weaing a suit)?, to which he answered: 'Of this lot? *Laughs* I'm a Chelsea fan!'

 

[winjer]

It's possible that the person (and thanks to him or her for taking the time to record what the police were doing) was able to go back to their workplace and escape the kettle that way.

This isn't within the kettle, this is the police trying to clear people from outside it, see this sequence of videos:
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=davehighbury&view=videos

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

They've been doing it at football for years on end...

Again as an aside, it did strike me that if he was a Millwall fan, he would have been fairly used to seeing and experiencing some quite aggressive policing if he went to matches, which could explain his fairly nonchalant reactions to the dogs and the cops that others have commented upon? Lots of ifs and maybes there I know.

 

[Brother Mouzone]

i don't know if because of the possible severity of this situation it would mean any CCTV footage would be held as evidence?

I wonder how many CCTV cameras the Mont Blanc shop it happened outside has? I wonder how you would find out?

Subject Access Request?

 

[harpo]

NO. There is new law already in force which some police are using to try class it as that, but it doesn't.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/jt200809/jtselect/jtrights/47/4707.htm#a24

Ah. Thanks.

 

[DM Andy]

This isn't within the kettle, this is the police trying to clear people from outside it, see this sequence of videos:
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=davehighbury&view=videos

Thanks for that winjer, helps explain how the video got past the cops.

 

[shaman75]

I haven't mentioned this until now, but I was assaulted, not badly but it was an assault, by a police officer on that day.

I was following a charge down Cannon Street when I stopped outside the HSBC that had a window put through. Videoed the damage, turned the camera off, turned round and a Senior Police Officer was running towards me, baton outstretched in front of him. He continued running, jumped and pushed me back with the baton. It wasn't enough to knock me down, but I was pretty shocked. I'd been trying to keep out of trouble all day and maintain a low profile as I tried to document stuff.

A short while after, I spoke to him calmly, pointing out that I had not damaged the window. He told me I was egging people on and they love being videoed.

I have submitted a complaint to the IPCC, but I think it demonstrates the mentality. This was not even in a kettle, which I managed to avoid all day. It was on a busy public street.

 

[Callie]

Subject Access Request?

I think some bloke did make a passing mention to the freedom of information act with regards to cctv footage on the brief coverage on the bbc news at some point but he didn't sound too hopeful.

Wonder what else is round there? *google streetviews*

 

[Barking_Mad]

Stephen Moss, Guardian staff writer:

stephenmoss
08 Apr 09, 12:38pm (7 minutes ago)
Staff writer The Met police federation guy interviewed on the Today programme this morning didn't seem very exercised by Ian Tomlinson's death, He called it a "little incident" - twice! Is this institutionalised stupidity, or something more sinister? Don't the police realise they're there to serve the public, not herd them like cattle and hasten their deaths (allegedly).

And why is the BBC so keen to rubbish the quality of the video (banging on about its shakiness etc) when it is remarkably clear? Perhaps to divert attention from the fact that they did – and are continuing to do – such a rubbish job of covering the protest and a man's death in suspicious circumstances. They're so anxious to sit on the fence, even when the evidence is overwhelming, they must have to employ people to pick splinters out of reporters' and commentators' backsides.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson said the force fully supported an inquiry into the death. Sir Paul said: "The images that have now been released raise obvious concerns and it is absolutely right and proper that there is a full investigation into this matter, which the Met will fully support."

being reported on the beeb site now. this is quite a break with the other mealy mouthed rubbish that i've heard so far from the met.

 

[London_Calling]

Ian Tomlinson's family:

It was, they said, the missing piece of the jigsaw. Ian Tomlinson's family have remained publicly silent in the week since he died.

His widow and children have found recent days extremely traumatic and have been keen not to prejudice the police investigation into his death. But after viewing footage that clearly shows him being assaulted from behind and pushed to the ground by a police officer, the family said they wanted justice.

The dead man's son Paul, 26, said: "My understanding - I've spoken to Barry who works with him on the Evening Standard stall, is he left there about 7 o'clock. And through CCTV and pictures that I've been shown he got refused access on a number of barricades that police had set up. And the missing jigsaw puzzle was what happened to him when he got into Royal Exchange Passage. I think what we've just seen has answered a lot of questions."

After watching the footage with his widowed mother, Julia, he said: "Now, seeing the video I can say the police did have contact with Ian. Whether that was a cause to his death we are not to know. I am sure we will get to the bottom of it. I think what we've seen has answered a lot of questions. And justice will be justice now." He added: "More evidence is coming out every day and I'm sure this isn't going to be the last."

Mrs Tomlinson, 52, was too distraught to comment. "I'm just lost for words."

The family want investigators to interview the officer who pushed Tomlinson to the ground, and the two dog handlers seen close behind him in the footage. "We want answers: why? Ian clearly had his arms in his pockets and back towards the police. There is no need for them to step in towards him. It clearly shows that Ian did have an altercation. Now we can say, yes he did. Up until now it has been 'if'. But now we've seen it, we want answers."

"Now we've seen this footage, we just want to ask for witnesses. People that [saw] or do have any more footage that can back it up. We'd be grateful for them to come forward."