G20: Getting to the truth- the death of Ian Tomlinson RIP

[Barking_Mad]

in the thread that got locked (as it was adding no more than this one) I think it wasfreespirit, posted a cropped closeup of ian when he was on the stretcher, and yes, it looks like the side of his head is bruised.

edit, I didn't realise you were talking about that picture. (didn't let he page load before pressing reply)

Im mailing Getty asking if this image has been handed over to the investigation. If that doesn't work i have contacts who will be able to help me out.......

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

the IPCCs reaction suprised me .. they had shut down the case without even waiting for evidence to come in .. except from the police .. clearly i am nieve as i thought they were more independent .. did they used to be? they come out of this very badly

read the article...

the question, "Do you have to be dead before the IPCC takes an interest in your case?", is too near the truth.

Under the system the IPCC replaced, few complaints were substantiated, a tiny number of officers faced discipline, and police investigations were strung out over years. Figures from 2007/08 show that nothing much has changed under the IPCC.

I have no wish to impugn the large majority of upright officers, but these statistics disclose a complaints system that fails to identify or punish the minority who abuse their office, and it serves the decent majority ill.

 

[gabi]

Out of interest, does the fact that the guy who filmed this and then leaked it to the Guardian was a City banker alter the views at all of the people who were shouting 'jump' at office workers and calling for the lot of them be burned alive on a funeral pyre?

 

[editor]

Out of interest, does the fact that the guy who filmed this and then leaked it to the Guardian was a City banker alter the views at all of the people who were shouting 'jump' at office workers and calling for the lot of them be burned alive on a funeral pyre?

What the fuck has any of that got to do with Tomlinson's death? And exactly who was asking for bankers to be burned alive?

 

[maomao]

Out of interest, does the fact that the guy who filmed this and then leaked it to the Guardian was a City banker alter the views at all of the people who were shouting 'jump' at office workers and calling for the lot of them be burned alive on a funeral pyre?

No, the first is banter and the second is melodramatic but both valid rhetorical devices to be used in protest.

 

[asbestos]

Out of interest, does the fact that the guy who filmed this and then leaked it to the Guardian was a City banker alter the views at all of the people who were shouting 'jump' at office workers and calling for the lot of them be burned alive on a funeral pyre?

100% Shit post, well done.

 

[xes]

Out of interest, does the fact that the guy who filmed this and then leaked it to the Guardian was a City banker alter the views at all of the people who were shouting 'jump' at office workers and calling for the lot of them be burned alive on a funeral pyre?

no.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Out of interest, does the fact that the guy who filmed this and then leaked it to the Guardian was a City banker alter the views at all of the people who were shouting 'jump' at office workers and calling for the lot of them be burned alive on a funeral pyre?

Rubbish. 0%

 

[durruti02]

read the article...

the question, "Do you have to be dead before the IPCC takes an interest in your case?", is too near the truth.

Under the system the IPCC replaced, few complaints were substantiated, a tiny number of officers faced discipline, and police investigations were strung out over years. Figures from 2007/08 show that nothing much has changed under the IPCC.

I have no wish to impugn the large majority of upright officers, but these statistics disclose a complaints system that fails to identify or punish the minority who abuse their office, and it serves the decent majority ill.

oh yes

 

[Crispy]

Out of interest, does the fact that the guy who filmed this and then leaked it to the Guardian was a City banker alter the views at all of the people who were shouting 'jump' at office workers and calling for the lot of them be burned alive on a funeral pyre?

Oh shit, I didn't realise this was a thread about urban75 posters and not about the death of an innocent man at all! How silly of me!

 

[durruti02]

Out of interest, does the fact that the guy who filmed this and then leaked it to the Guardian was a City banker alter the views at all of the people who were shouting 'jump' at office workers and calling for the lot of them be burned alive on a funeral pyre?

just out of interest ..

how many city workers were assaulted that day? ( we were constantly told they were under threat)

i suspect zero .. maybe i am wrong and it is one or two lol BUT minimal ..

99.999% of demonstrators were are politically savvy enough to know what is right and what is wrong

 

[Jayen4]

Right,well I'm going to chuck my twopennorth in here....

From what I've seen on the TV,the cop who pushed this poor guy with such force that he ultimately died of the consequences,should be fucking well strung up !! That cop was just plain downright acting like a THUG! There was absolutely no reason for him to do what he did. Mr Tomlinson wasn't doing anything wrong,he wasn't threatening anyone.....he wasn't even looking at the police,when that thug decided to push him over voilently ! Mr Tomlinson even had his hands in his pockets. Would you push someone in that position ?

I say that cop should be rooted out and dealt with as severly as possible ! He is far worse than any protestor or 'criminal' for behaving in that way. All the other cops should be dealt with too,for 'not seeing' what he did !
And you wonder why people don't like the police ?? There will be MAJOR repercussions if this isn't dealt with properly and there are any further occurances of this nature.
I would happily deal with that scumbag cop personally !! It's what he deserves !

 

[gabi]

What the fuck has any of that got to do with Tomlinson's death? And exactly who was asking for bankers to be burned alive?

You didn't notice the funeral pyre being erected outside the BoE complete with chants of 'burn the bankers'? Kind of hard to miss I would've thought.

Anyways, I seem to have got everyone backs up and I really can't be arsed with it, so apologies - I'm out.

 

[kyser_soze]

There will be MAJOR repercussions if this isn't dealt with properly and there are any further occurances of this nature.

And what will those be, and in what way will they be different from previous occassoins where the OB have 'accidentally' killed someone?

The only peopole who'll remember this in 12 months will be the victim's family, their lawyers (and the OBs legal team) and those in the protesting groups who aim to keep this stuff in the public eye.

 

[nopassaran]

the IPCCs reaction suprised me .. they had shut down the case without even waiting for evidence to come in .. except from the police .. clearly i am nieve as i thought they were more independent .. did they used to be? they come out of this very badly

It seems to me that in the vast majority of cases the IPCC only monitor investigations carried out by Constabularies, and only rarely take on full ownership of a case. Where this case is concerned it is the City of London Police who are doing the investigation, and what is rightly being called for, is for the IPCC to take on full management of the case.

...as to whether justice will be served, is another matter entirely.

 

[Jayen4]

And what will those be, and in what way will they be different from previous occassoins where the OB have 'accidentally' killed someone?

The only peopole who'll remember this in 12 months will be the victim's family, their lawyers (and the OBs legal team) and those in the protesting groups who aim to keep this stuff in the public eye.

What will those be ??.....

This sort of thing is happening more and more frequently and what with all the other shit that's going on (credit crunch,re-possessions etc etc),so eventually there will be 1 event which will blow the lid off the whole situation.....then there will be MAJOR civil unrest...civil war even ? You think I'm being extreme ?? People will only take so much before they hit back...big time ! Believe me it IS coming.....

 

[DM Andy]

It seems to me that in the vast majority of cases the IPCC only monitor investigations carried out by Constabularies, and only rarely take on full ownership of a case. Where this case is concerned it is the City of London Police who are doing the investigation, and what is rightly being called for, is for the IPCC to take on full management of the case.

To my mind, if the case is being run by Plod or ex-Plod isn't going to make a difference. What we need is an independent investigating IPCC who actually take the time to investigate every single complaint throughly and gives the public information on what our Police have done.

 

[Wilf]

Hints that the IPCC may have to use independent investigators:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/08/ian-tomlinson-video-inquiry-ipcc

 

[nopassaran]

To my mind, if the case is being run by Plod or ex-Plod isn't going to make a difference. What we need is an independent investigating IPCC who actually take the time to investigate every single complaint throughly and gives the public information on what our Police have done.

I quite agree (as the unquoted part of my post implies) but surely within the current system, and where this case is concerned, it's preferable for the case to be managed exclusively by the IPCC?

 

[kyser_soze]

This sort of thing is happening more and more frequently

So when was the last time someone died in police custody in the UK, or as the result of the actions of OB as in Mr Tomlinson's case?

 

[Callie]

Kyser you might want to add 'in the UK' to that, otherwise the answer is probably daily.

 

[DM Andy]

I quite agree (as the unquoted part of my post implies) but surely within the current system, and where this case is concerned, it's preferable for the case to be managed exclusively by the IPCC?

I'm not entirely sure that I do agree. If the case is being run by City of London Police, and they try to whitewash then it will be more obvious than if it's run by ex-Plod under the disguise of an independent investigation.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

So when was the last time someone died in police custody, or as the result of the actions of OB as in Mr Tomlinson's case?

Apart from DeMenezes, the latest stats i can find are:

However, on 19 April 2004, 15-year-old Gareth Myatt died after losing consciousness while being restrained by staff at Rainsbrook Secure Training Centre. In 2003, there were 76 deaths of prisoners through “natural causes”. While the overwhelming majority of these were undoubtedly completely unrelated to the person’s imprisonment, the standard of prison healthcare has attracted major criticism from, amongst others, NGOs, Independent Monitoring Boards (formerly Boards of Visitors) and the Prisons Inspectorate.

Home Office figures show that, between April 2003 and March 2004, there were 38 deaths in police custody in England and Wales, of which 7 were in police stations, 22 were in hospital, and the remainder were at the scene of arrest or following arrest. None of the deaths at police stations involved the use of restraint, although six of those who died in hospital had been restrained by the police shortly prior to death. All of those who died at police stations were white; one of those who died in hospital having earlier been restrained was black. In 2002–03, there were 8 deaths in police custody in Scotland. In 2001, there were 5 deaths in police custody in Northern Ireland.

Conclusion? The result is a failure properly to protect the lives of vulnerable people in the state’s care through the positive measures necessary to meet the duty of care required by the state in compliance with Article 2 of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR). And when people die in consequence of that failure, the system does not always offer an effective investigation—an essential requirement of the right to life under Article 2. Deaths in custody

 

[Stobart Stopper]

Watching that footage this lunchtime made me fucking sick and disgusted. There was no need for him to have been pushed over like that, he even had his hands in his pockets and it was unlikely that he could have put his hands out to protect himself as he had his back to the copper who did it.

I really hope someone is charged for this.

 

[where to]

What will those be ??.....

This sort of thing is happening more and more frequently and what with all the other shit that's going on (credit crunch,re-possessions etc etc),so eventually there will be 1 event which will blow the lid off the whole situation.....then there will be MAJOR civil unrest...civil war even ? You think I'm being extreme ?? People will only take so much before they hit back...big time ! Believe me it IS coming.....

yes.

 

[danny la rouge]

Watching that footage this lunchtime made me fucking sick and disgusted.

Have you watched the Guardian version of the video? They've slowed it down at the end; you can see that he appears to have been hit on the back of the legs with a baton, and then pushed.

 

[danny la rouge]

Here's the link again: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/07/ian-tomlinson-g20-death-video

Note how no cops go to his aid.

 

[Stobart Stopper]

Yes, I have watched that as well.
There was something I was reading a while back about blows to the upper body and disturbance of heart rhythms, can't remember where I saw it but it someone is hit on the upper body IIRC it can disrupt the flow of blood to the heart and if a person has underlying heart problems I think it can cause a heart attack.

The force of that blow to Tomlinson looked to me to be really hard, it must have been to take big bloke like him off his feet.

 

[maximilian ping]

i think unless there is some very quick action by the police over this death, people should take to the streets and protest because of 1) the misinformation put out by the police, 2) the total lack of investigation by police and 3) very probable destroying/ignoring of evidence that this happened by police.

who is organising one?

 

[Callie]

I think maybe the riot gear prevents them from bending down to help people. Either that or their callous hearts. I have never seen a cop try to help someone down on the floor in those kinds of situations, I'm sure some do though.

I noticed on google streetview that there is a CCTV camera on the Cornhill Insurance building directly opposite, I wonder if it was functioning and able to offer anymore footage? (assuming that the images on streetview arent terribly out of date)