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G20: Getting to the truth- the death of Ian Tomlinson RIP

From The Guradian eye witness reports

J: Daniel MacPhee, 24, social support worker, Kingston

If the truth be that he died of a heart attack it's not surprising really because it felt like people were running for their lives. I looked over to my left and there was a man lying in the street. Someone shouted out, 'he fell down, over there' - as if to say that he fell down before somehow.

I rang 999. I was on the phone. They said, 'is he breathing?' Then they asked me to put him on his back. So with the help of the person I was with, we managed to get him on to his back.

Not long after that a group of four or five riot police came running out from the crowd and surrounded him. The ambulancewoman on the phone said to me, 'can you pass me to the police?' I said, 'I've got the ambulance on the phone, do you want to speak to them?' They just ignored me.

When the police interviewed me, I said that I saw no violence toward this individual, which I didn't. And afterwards the police said it would take a very brave coroner to proclaim that the cause of death was because he was beaten up, or because of the protests that day. They said it would take a brave coroner to suggest the cause of death was because of any wrongdoing by the police.

Initially I just kind of forgot about it. But it was later on in the day that I thought, why would someone say it would take a brave coroner? If the facts are there.
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it's worth reading these accounts in full btw.
 
And another, i think from the first attack on him.

Amiri Howe, 24, actor/musician, west London

We stood on a ledge near Cornhill. Before he got hit, at the beginning of the whole thing - we were watching the protesters at the Bank of England. Police got into a couple of scuffles with people. They were pushing the line forward, pushing the line forward.

We saw a couple of scuffles happening. Our friends were inside trying to get out - no water, no food, we wanted to get them out. Police started coming forward. Missiles started to be thrown. They came in with their batons, stamping.

The guy [Tomlinson] was stood there. He got hit near the head with a baton. It was like a pencil, he just fell to the floor and hit his head again when he hit the floor. When he got hit, police were coming forwards. I saw him fall so I moved back. But I saw him on the floor and someone picking him up - that's when I took the picture.

If there was CCTV then they will see exactly what happened - which is exactly what I said happened. You see in that corner where the dogs came up, it was proper chaos. After that, I was taking pictures of police and the dog line, and a girl came and said, 'this guy needs help'. He was further back down the road. It was the same guy that got hit. He was wearing the exact same stuff
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...

Elias Stoakes, 25, student, Mile End
There were two missiles that I remember, thrown from the back. The police claim that protesters impeded them from treating him because of a barrage of missiles was completely untrue. Protesters from the crowd wanted to help him. The crowd were extremely angry at people who had thrown missiles. They were mostly concerned about police charging. Earlier on the same street they hit me with batons over my thigh and calf. They were saying things like, 'That got you up. Now fuck off'. I still have the bruises. That was because I was stopping to help someone who hurt their head and they came at me. They pressed the pressure point under my ear to make me move.
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crystal_ball2_bmwPreview.jpg


I predicted that video of an attack on Ian would come to light - it was inevitable with the amount of cameras and CCTV - in fact there may be more to come as Barking Mad asks above - so far no CCTV footage has been 'released'. Wouldnt hold your breath. If US secret services can withhold all CCTV footage of a plane crashing into the Pentagon, MI5/Police can do the same with this.

I think it is very likely that Ian had already been beaten BEFORE the Guardian footage - he looks very weakened, and it would tally with the quote in BMs post(s).

My next prediction is that rumours in the form of a smear campaign about Ian will trickle out, to try and colour the issue. they'll try and paint him as having asked for it in some way.

My final prediction will definitely come true, and that is that there will be no prosecutions as a result of any forthcoming case. When was the last time a member of the police force received any meaningful punsihment for violent misconduct or death?
 
Whether or not the police officer's actions lead to this man's death, I hope there will be an investigation into what is seen on that clip, and some answers given, and action taken, not only to consider disciplining that individual, but to look into how police officers believe they should behave while policing a demo.

It's frightening that the police think that is the appropriate way to behave, and that they are confident that they will get away with assaulting someone, presumably by making up some story or other, and being backed up by colleagues. None of the other police officers reacted in any way to it, in that clip, which makes it look like they condone such behaviour from amongst their ranks, and that there was nothing unusual in it! I do wonder whether this is now more common than it used to be?

:eek:
 
I will not be satisfied on this until an officer is in the dock on manslaughter charges

i fear i will never be satified
 
ska invita said:
My next prediction is that rumours in the form of a smear campaign about Ian will trickle out, to try and colour the issue. they'll try and paint him as having asked for it in some way.
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Just saw Paulie's post - showing the intent to smear is already there (i must stop reading threads backwards!)

Paulie Tandoori said:
Top story on both radio 4 & 5, the former conducting a rather ludicrous interview with a Met rep who said that he couldn't speculate on police actions towards mr Tomlinson, before then going on to speculate about what it was that Mr Tomlinson could have been doing to contribute to any police response towards him. So essentially the now predictable approach of hoping that they can pin the blame on him/and or others, rather than accept culpability in any way shape or form for their overall brutal approach being to blame.
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ska invita said:
My final prediction will definitely come true, and that is that there will be no prosecutions as a result of any forthcoming case. When was the last time a member of the police force received any meaningful punsihment for violent misconduct or death?
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Well if that's true and we don't respond assertively then we we may as well give up to the police state goons now. It will confirm that we live in a tyranny. We have a duty to overthrow tryranny. Period. But there are still people today scrabbling around trying to make excuses for the filth. This country disgusts me, if they opened up concentration camps here there are a lot of people who would just queue up to go in and deride those that didn't. British people like being lied to, ripped off and randomly killed at some level, we think it's our place.
 
e19896 said:
So, are these FIT officers? There are several more milling about in the Ian Tomlinson assault video, but it’s a bit too choppy to see much on the YouTube version.
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There are at least five FIT officers present, I can name two of them (but I won't here, now) I'm sure many other people can too.
 
Peter Smyth, chairman of the Metropolitan Police Federation, said today that some physical confrontation was “inevitable” during a large protest.

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: “On a day like that, where there are some protesters who are quite clearly hell-bent on causing as much trouble as they can, there is inevitably going to be some physical confrontation.

“On that day, it was mercifully... a lot smaller than expected.”

Asked whether he thought the assault on Mr Tomlinson was unprovoked, he said: “Sometimes it isn’t clear, as a police officer, who is a protester and who is not.

“I know it’s a generalisation but anybody in that part of the town at that time, the assumption would be that they are part of the protest. I accept that’s perhaps not a clever assumption but it’s a natural one.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6057415.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2
 
winjer said:
Peter Smyth, chairman of the Metropolitan Police Federation, said today that some physical confrontation was “inevitable” during a large protest.

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: “On a day like that, where there are some protesters who are quite clearly hell-bent on causing as much trouble as they can, there is inevitably going to be some physical confrontation.

“On that day, it was mercifully... a lot smaller than expected.”

Asked whether he thought the assault on Mr Tomlinson was unprovoked, he said: “Sometimes it isn’t clear, as a police officer, who is a protester and who is not.

“I know it’s a generalisation but anybody in that part of the town at that time, the assumption would be that they are part of the protest. I accept that’s perhaps not a clever assumption but it’s a natural one.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6057415.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2
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So, it's OK to violently assault peaceful protesters then? That's what he seems to be saying by that quote.
 
editor said:
So, it's OK to violently assault peaceful protesters then? That's what he seems to be saying by that quote.
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He doesnt seem to be saying it. He is saying it. The state can assault with impunity. Period. They expect to get away with it and a lot of people think they will. Again, if we let them do so we need to ask whether we are collectively consenting to tyranny by default.
 
editor said:
So, it's OK to violently assault peaceful protesters then? That's what he seems to be saying by that quote.
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In the eyes of the police, and of the daily mail/sun reading population, there is no such thing as a peaceful protester. (if/presuming) You are protesting against something the goverments want/approve of, it makes you the enemy automaticly. It makes protesters the same as terrorists in their eyes, which is why they used anti terror laws on you all.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
Well if that's true and we don't respond assertively then we we may as well give up to the police state goons now. It will confirm that we live in a tyranny. We have a duty to overthrow tryranny. Period. But there are still people today scrabbling around trying to make excuses for the filth. This country disgusts me, if they opened up concentration camps here there are a lot of people who would just queue up to go in and deride those that didn't. British people like being lied to, ripped off and randomly killed at some level, we think it's our place.
Click to expand...

Have you ever considered applying to the Police Service?
 
Guineveretoo said:
It's frightening that the police think that is the appropriate way to behave, and that they are confident that they will get away with assaulting someone, presumably by making up some story or other, and being backed up by colleagues.
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Police can get away with murder - it is the unwritten law in the police handbook. Its a simple case of not impeding the polices ability to act. If they felt they might get in trouble everytime they accidentally shot/truncheoned someone they might not be willing to pull the trigger/hit out.

EDIT: much the same is true for the army - definitely the US army.

As I say, I cant find the last time someone from the police was convicted of a violent crime. Only thing I can see is 10 plod kicked out for racism
 
xes said:
In the eyes of the police, and of the daily mail/sun reading population, there is no such thing as a peaceful protester. (if/presuming) You are protesting against something the goverments want/approve of, it makes you the enemy automaticly. It makes protesters the same as terrorists in their eyes, which is why they used anti terror laws on you all.
Click to expand...

Sadly this is true - I noted the report about the video on BBC News this morning was tempered by a "protesters then threw bottles at the police who were trying to help Mr. Tomlinson" comment afterwards. Just to make all those people who think there is no smoke without fire happy. Makes you sick :(
 
butchersapron said:
Have you ever considered applying to the Police Service?
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I don't really get what you're at, and no I haven't. I happen to have come across some fine officers but my issue isnt just the thugscum killers but the crawling UK public and press who think being lied to and randomly killed is something to make an excuse for.
 
This might have been said already, but I don't have time right now to read all posts,

I've seen this guy many times on Fish Street Hill, by the Monument - he basically used to hang around the newstand there, not sure if he was paid to help out informally or something.

He always struck me as a harmless wino type, never saw him bother a soul - must have walked past him hundreds of times, going to work.

From the footage I've seen of the bottle throwing incident, it was a bottle at a cordon of police - it wasn't obvious at all what they were doing (not to excuse chucking a bottle at someone, but its not as wilfully evil as its being painted)
 
Mmm, look at all those donuts under their chin. They need the kettle, 'cos it's not like they're gonna catch anyone! :D
 
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