G20: Getting to the truth- the death of Ian Tomlinson RIP

[shaman75]

There was no need for what that officer did.

But it was going on all day. And I can only presume it goes on all the time. And it's condoned, accepted, ignored or whatever by senior officers.

It's just this time, someone died and the police and media hype had ensured practically everyone had a camera.

 

[Callie]

And this is why it's illegal to photograph and film the police?

 

[Garcia Lorca]

Police are taught in situations like this to push people who won't move(rather than arrest them). They do this with both hands, or if in riot gear, with their shield.
He was following his training.

No fucking defense in this case, just saw the shocking video on the ch4 news extra there. He was showing no threat, indeed looked as tho he would rather get away from the situation only to be pushed, then wacked with a fucking baton.... clearly before falling to the ground.

wont move??????? he was fucking moving.
edit to add - and no threat around, he was isolated and alone,

 

[Kid_Eternity]

If that officer get's no sanction there will be fire on the streets over this...

 

[Dan U]

well someone who posts on another forum i use has seen the footage and saw the incident and it's aftermath first hand.

she is contacting the IPCC now

 

[FridgeMagnet]

And this is why it's illegal to photograph and film the police?

Expect a crackdown on anyone carrying a camera at a protest soon... not that it will make a difference, these days most people gave a high resolution, video-capable camera, in their phone.

 

[sonny61]

right here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/07/video-g20-police-assault

posted about 4 times on this thread. And the 2nd time i've posted it for you.

They slow it down for you, so you can see it clearly. And you can see it clearly.

Maybe. I think he misses,if not, it's only a smack to the back of the legs, got a lot worse at school.
He died of an heart attack, not beaten to death by the police.
If a minority of protesters had not attacked the police, none of this would have happened, that's why they were in riot gear, they must take a part of the blame for his death(the violent protesters).

 

[agricola]

Could the fact that false accounts of the incident were being spread to the press by the police not affect the quality of witnesses as well? More, in fact, considering CCTV footage doesn't lie, whereas metropolitan police spokesman seem capable of little else? I'm sure there are reasons why the IPCC wouldn't wish to say anything until they were sure of all the facts, but could they not perhaps have slipped the police a memo to tell them to stop prejudicing a possible criminal case by spreading bullshit?

Were they though? Look, I have read quite a few articles on this and I cannot recall one where Police denied having hit Tomlinson - indeed, there appear to be only two or three official statements (from the police and IPCC) about him and his death, none of which are fundamentally contradicted by the footage (the closest that does come is the City of London statement that he died of natural causes, but that may well be what the PM found).

Quite a lot of the allegations of police lying here, for instance with regards to the bottles, seem to stem more from how the media has reported the official statement, rather than the official statement itself.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

It's just this time, someone died and the police and media hype had ensured practically everyone had a camera.

That's about the good thing of the time we're in, it's a different world now. Lies aren't easily maintained when ordinary people can document and distribute with very little or no cost.

 

[_pH_]

He was showing no threat, indeed looked as tho he would rather get away from the situation

you couldn't get less threatening! he wasn't masked up, he had his back to the police, hands in his pockets..........

 

[creak]

Maybe. I think he misses,if not, it's only a smack to the back of the legs, got a lot worse at school.
He died of an heart attack, not beaten to death by the police.
If a minority of protesters had not attacked the police, none of this would have happened, that's why they were in riot gear, they must take a part of the blame for his death(the violent protesters).

For fucks sake

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Could you put it somewhere for download? (or forward it to my ID with an r on the end at gmail.com).

Uploading now - it's quite a large file, but I don't want to recompress it and lose any detail.

 

[editor]

And this is why it's illegal to photograph and film the police?

It's not actually illegal to photograph and film the police, although there are certain conditions where they can claim that. This certainly wasn't one of those occasions.

 

[_pH_]

Maybe. I think he misses,if not, it's only a smack to the back of the legs, got a lot worse at school.
He died of an heart attack, not beaten to death by the police.
If a minority of protesters had not attacked the police, none of this would have happened, that's why they were in riot gear, they must take a part of the blame for his death(the violent protesters).

you fucking idiot

 

[Dan U]

Maybe. I think he misses,if not, it's only a smack to the back of the legs, got a lot worse at school.
He died of an heart attack, not beaten to death by the police.
If a minority of protesters had not attacked the police, none of this would have happened, that's why they were in riot gear, they must take a part of the blame for his death(the violent protesters).

if you and i have a ruck in a pub and i push and hit you and you fall and bang your head and then die very soon after, i'd be looking at a manslaughter charge in court i imagine.

 

[Garcia Lorca]

The lying fucking bastards!

thing is, if evidence like this didnt come out they would continue to squirm.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Expect a crackdown on anyone carrying a camera at a protest soon... not that it will make a difference, these days most people gave a high resolution, video-capable camera, in their phone.

I think they'll struggle to prevent photography at a demo of that sort of size, but at smaller ones, or when caught in 'Rodney King' type circumstances, I think it's pretty clear what's going to happen if you try to film their crimes.

All the more reason to make sure everybody has a camera at major protests.

 

[editor]

If a minority of protesters had not attacked the police, none of this would have happened, that's why they were in riot gear, they must take a part of the blame for his death(the violent protesters).

I think you meant to say that if the police hadn't been aggressively imprisoning peaceful protesters none of this would have happened.

 

[maomao]

Maybe. I think he misses,if not, it's only a smack to the back of the legs, got a lot worse at school.
He died of an heart attack, not beaten to death by the police.

Do you honestly believe he would have had the heart attack at the same time and place if he hadn't been beaten down? You do realise that heart attacks are often triggered by stress don't you?

If a minority of protesters had not attacked the police, none of this would have happened, that's why they were in riot gear, they must take a part of the blame for his death(the violent protesters).

So the police went and got tooled up after the violence started? They came tooled for a ruck that had been plugged by the media in advance.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Uploading now - it's quite a large file, but I don't want to recompress it and lose any detail.

You uploading it somewhere that's embeddable? Fucking Guardian and their shit video player is useless...

 

[Callie]

yeah sorry, mild over reaction/statement on my part!

their certain condition though are probably a bit like section 5 - applicable when it suits

i wonder what the Freedom of Information Act will allow people access to with regards to this? CCTV footage of the area? I bet there was shitloads

(am rambling, don't know nothing about nothing - feel free to ignore!)

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I think they'll struggle to prevent photography at a demo of that sort of size, but at smaller ones, or when caught in 'Rodney King' type circumstances, I think it's pretty clear what's going to happen if you try to film their crimes.

All the more reason to make sure everybody has a camera at major protests.

Agreed.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I think they'll struggle to prevent photography at a demo of that sort of size, but at smaller ones, or when caught in 'Rodney King' type circumstances, I think it's pretty clear what's going to happen if you try to film their crimes.

All the more reason to make sure everybody has a camera at major protests.

Yeah, and all the more reason to resist restrictions on public photography.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

You uploading it somewhere that's embeddable? Fucking Guardian and their shit video player is useless...

Can do - give me a bit though.

 

[editor]

if you and i have a ruck in a pub and i push and hit you and you fall and bang your head and then die very soon after, i'd be looking at a manslaughter charge in court i imagine.

Or even murder, as this example proves:

SHOUKAT ALI, a north London businessman, died from a heart attack after chasing and confronting a thief he saw stealing a radio from his son's car, police said yesterday.

Initial reports suggested Mr Ali died after being severely beaten by the thief but a post- mortem examination yesterday showed bruises on his body were inconsistent with that.

But the police said they were still treating his death as murder and appealing for witnesses. 'In the pathologist's opinion, the heart attack was brought on by the emotional and physical stress of chasing and confronting the thief. Mr Ali did have a recent history of heart disease,' a spokeswoman said.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/violent-britain-thiefs-victim-died-of-heart-attack-1371167.html

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Can do - give me a bit though.

No probs. Will keep checking thread.

 

[SpookyFrank]

If a minority of protesters had not attacked the police, none of this would have happened, that's why they were in riot gear, they must take a part of the blame for his death(the violent protesters).

Nobody attacked the police. The police were in riot gear because that was the plan and because they'd decided beforehand that the protestors were going to kick off. If recent developments as documented on this thread show one thing clearly, it's that you can't trust either the police or the press to tell the truth about this sort of stuff.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Were they though? Look, I have read quite a few articles on this and I cannot recall one where Police denied having hit Tomlinson - indeed, there appear to be only two or three official statements (from the police and IPCC) about him and his death, none of which are fundamentally contradicted by the footage (the closest that does come is the City of London statement that he died of natural causes, but that may well be what the PM found).

Quite a lot of the allegations of police lying here, for instance with regards to the bottles, seem to stem more from how the media has reported the official statement, rather than the official statement itself.

Surely one of the key objectives of a post-mortem is to establish the primary and contributory causes of a person's demise? The fact that it was simply reported as a heart attack, rather than raising or mentioning what one would imagine to be fairly clear bruises and markings as perhaps also having contributed to this heart attack, does tend to arouse suspicions, as do smokescreen stories about protestors being somehow complicit in Mr Tomlinson's death. Even his family are asking for further investigations and evidence which has only occuring due to people challenging the official verdicts that tried to brush all this under the carpet.

 

[editor]

I think they'll struggle to prevent photography at a demo of that sort of size, but at smaller ones, or when caught in 'Rodney King' type circumstances, I think it's pretty clear what's going to happen if you try to film their crimes.

They'd still find it very hard to stop accredited media filming at a demo as there's no credible way they could make the terrorism laws fit the scene.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Shahid Malik):
I want to be clear about this: the offence does not capture an innocent tourist taking a photograph of a police officer, or a journalist photographing police officers as part of his or her job. It does not criminalise the normal taking of photographs of the police. Police officers have the discretion to ask people not to take photographs for public safety or security reasons, but the taking of photographs in a public place is not subject to any rule or statute.

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=8958024&postcount=329

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Uploading now - it's quite a large file, but I don't want to recompress it and lose any detail.

Direct link here: http://www.fridgemagnet.org.uk/uploads/tomlinson_full_guardian.mov (40 meg or so mind you)

I'm converting it to FLV as well, and I'll post the embed link to that when that's done.