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French magazine publishes controversial cartoons of Prophet Muhammad - many killed in revenge attack

Mr Moose said:
I'm not saying that at all, they were clearly more competent than many recent attackers. But talking up their 'professionalism' was premature speculation rather than fact. As more facts emerge they appear basically trained soldiers and ragged if ruthless assassins.

I'm not sure why you would ask who the notion of super efficient jihadist warriors would appeal to as if enough young people in the UK and France haven't already jumped ship to go to Syria and join IS at the great distress of their families.
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As far as I'm aware no one was 'talking up' their professionalism. Remarks on here and elsewhere merely made the observation that they had displayed a certain amount of competence. And conclusions, correct as it happens, were then drawn from that.

On the other hand presenting them as bumbling incompetents would be entirely at odds with the facts and thus counterproductive, as the demographic you express concern about it would instantly see it for what it is - crude propaganda. And an obvious lie. Additional proof as far as they are concerned that the state/media cannot be trusted to tell the truth about anything...including the promotion of the notion that the families of would-be jihadis are always "distressed".
 
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Joe Reilly said:
As far as I'm aware no one was 'talking up' their professionalism. Remarks on here and elsewhere merely made the observation that they had displayed a certain amount of competence. And conclusions, correct as it happens, were then drawn from that.

On the other hand presenting them as bumbling incompetents would be entirely at odds with the facts and thus counterproductive, as the demographic you express concern about it would instantly see it for what it is - crude propaganda. And an obvious lie. Additional proof as far as they are concerned that the state/media cannot be trusted to tell the truth about anything...
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not even the weather :(
 
This, on the axel springer building in Berlin, is sickening given their incitement of murder of people they politically disagreed with back in the 60s and 70s:

73ad284b-3e4f-464c-aed8-94cab7ac7eb9-1020x687.jpeg
 
weltweit said:
Apparently they first burst into the wrong offices and started shooting before realising their mistake and going back out again. It is quite possible they were not the highly trained criminal / assassin masterminds some presume and could also have dropped their own ID card in their getaway car!
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The dropped ID card thing is a very old game.
 
danny la rouge said:
You're still getting it wrong; they are, it's just that their reading of Islam is not the majority one. Your problem was not that you called those murderers Muslims, but that you tarred all Muslims as supporting Murder. It really isn't hard, and I know you have the capacity to grasp it.
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No, not all Muslims are murderers, and it was not my intention to say that. Posting in a hurry is probably not a good idea, when I said that the 'apologists' defence was getting a bit thin, I was referring to those who say that the incident in Paris, amongst many others is a reaction to British and French (amongst others) involvement in Iraq, Afghanistan Syria etc. That won't wash I'm afraid, as the old saw has it 'Two wrongs don't make a right'.

Today at work I suffered an acute muscle spasm in my lower back. I was looked after by a Muslim First Aider. How do I know that he was a Muslim? He lent me his prayer rug to stretch out on, until the spasm passed. We discussed what had happened in France, he was absolutely appalled, and was of the same view as me, these people are not Muslims in anything but misnomer.

My daughter's partner is a cartoonist, and is the current president of the Cartoonists Association. He was off to France early this morning, to comfort the widow of one of the dead, who had been a close friend.

Demonising ordinary Muslims is absolutely wrong, and if it escalates will drive more people towards extremism. I do have major problems with Islamic theology, and bigger problems with Sharia law, that however does not mean that I have any antipathy whatsoever towards 'ordinary' Muslims. I do think that Muslim philosophy does act as an 'enabler' in the drift to extremism, because the faith is an integral part of ordinary life. The average Christian attends church on Sunday, and tries to live a good life for the rest of the week, and has no dietary rules to follow. Muslims pray five times a day, attend the mosque every day and have strict dietary restrictions. It is a different way of life.
 
And memorising that book of theirs - I had a look the other day - I reckon that must affect you - it doesn't even flow like the King James. I couldn't penetrate it even with explanation.

But the young men who do this stuff are often very late converts.
 
turgid stuff - I couldn't manage the first chapter of the Satanic Verses either
But it was more interesting than "Dianetics and Mental Health"
 
Sasaferrato said:
No, not all Muslims are murderers, and it was not my intention to say that. Posting in a hurry is probably not a good idea, when I said that the 'apologists' defence was getting a bit thin, I was referring to those who say that the incident in Paris, amongst many others is a reaction to British and French (amongst others) involvement in Iraq, Afghanistan Syria etc. That won't wash I'm afraid, as the old saw has it 'Two wrongs don't make a right'.

Today at work I suffered an acute muscle spasm in my lower back. I was looked after by a Muslim First Aider. How do I know that he was a Muslim? He lent me his prayer rug to stretch out on, until the spasm passed. We discussed what had happened in France, he was absolutely appalled, and was of the same view as me, these people are not Muslims in anything but misnomer.

My daughter's partner is a cartoonist, and is the current president of the Cartoonists Association. He was off to France early this morning, to comfort the widow of one of the dead, who had been a close friend.

Demonising ordinary Muslims is absolutely wrong, and if it escalates will drive more people towards extremism. I do have major problems with Islamic theology, and bigger problems with Sharia law, that however does not mean that I have any antipathy whatsoever towards 'ordinary' Muslims. I do think that Muslim philosophy does act as an 'enabler' in the drift to extremism, because the faith is an integral part of ordinary life. The average Christian attends church on Sunday, and tries to live a good life for the rest of the week, and has no dietary rules to follow. Muslims pray five times a day, attend the mosque every day and have strict dietary restrictions. It is a different way of life.
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Sorry to hear about your back.

I broadly agree with your post as it stands. Not sure what the bit about dietary requirements has to do with anything, though. (I was brought up a Catholic, and had to fast before Mass, as well as give stuff up for Lent. As a cultural tradition, a throw-back to earlier times, my family also had fish on Fridays rather than poultry or mammal meat. I have old friends who are Eastern Orthodox Christians, and they seem to spend most of the year on one dietary restriction or other). Many of the things you're thinking of as Muslim may be cultural traditions, rather than actually Koranic.

* I also have major problems with Christian theology and Judaism. And Hinduism. (Not so much Buddhism).
 
gentlegreen said:
And memorising that book of theirs - I had a look the other day - I reckon that must affect you - it doesn't even flow like the King James. I couldn't penetrate it even with explanation.

But the young men who do this stuff are often very late converts.
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It is translated from Arabic. You almost certainly read a poor translation. In Arabic it is deeply poetic, and notoriously difficult to translate.

And memorising writing doesnt affect anyone negatively.
 
Sasaferrato said:
Demonising ordinary Muslims is absolutely wrong
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Like you've been doing?


Sasaferrato said:
I do have major problems with Islamic theology, and bigger problems with Sharia law, that however does not mean that I have any antipathy whatsoever towards 'ordinary' Muslims. I do think that Muslim philosophy does act as an 'enabler' in the drift to extremism, because the faith is an integral part of ordinary life. The average Christian attends church on Sunday, and tries to live a good life for the rest of the week, and has no dietary rules to follow. Muslims pray five times a day, attend the mosque every day and have strict dietary restrictions. It is a different way of life.
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Oh, back to normal.
 
The Boy said:
When I read that report, I assumed:

ID for hire car > keep ID handy for reasons you mention > fuck up by leaving ID in glove box or whatevs.

No idea how likely that would be though.
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Not much more of a fuck up if than hiring a car using their own ID
 
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