Freelancers during this crisis and the Self Employment Income Support Scheme

[lazythursday]

I was full time freelance until October, then I started a full time masters degree, continuing freelance work on a reduced scale to bring some money in, but funding myself mostly through savings. No work now virus has hit so getting through year is looking challenging but I guess I'm not really entitled to anything as a ft student.. though my inner scam artist is wondering if they'd ever find out.

 

[klang]

anybody else got this? I think I'm eligible...

​ ​ ​ ​ Membership number (CAE/IPI): xxxxxx As your Chief Executive – and with our wider PRS Team – we wanted to make sure we are supporting you through these difficult and unusual times. Over the last month we’ve heard from a number of you struggling to make ends meet and we want to help. We’ve come together with our partners at the PRS Members’ Fund and the PRS Foundation to launch the PRS Emergency Relief Fund. This money is available to PRS members globally and will be offered in grants of up to £1000 each, depending on need. The PRS Emergency Relief Fund is open to those who: • have been a PRS writer member for at least two years • have earned at least £500 of royalties within the last two years • are suffering genuine hardship from loss of income due to the coronavirus pandemic Establishing this new PRS Emergency Relief Fund is part of a wider plan to support members during the coming weeks, with further measures being worked on. To find out more about the PRS Emergency Relief Fund and apply for a grant go to our website. Applications will open from 9am tomorrow. If you’re not eligible for the fund, we’ve put together information on organisations who may be able to help. The entire PRS team is focussed on processing and paying royalties to members as normal and mid-April’s payment will proceed as usual. If you’re due royalties, we’re planning to show the amount you’ll be paid on your member homepage on Wednesday 8 April. This is the first step we're talking to help to you, our members. We hope this will also act as a catalyst for the wider music industry to do more. We know you look to PRS for Music for leadership, for support and to be the best and most trusted collecting society in the world. Stay safe, stay healthy. Take care of each other. Andrea C. Martin Chief Executive PRS for Music

 

[Anju]

I'm having same issue at moment, code doesn't come through until its expired. Dunno how an automated email process gets overwhelmed

I'm going to try again later. Hopefully it's just sheer numbers after the underwhelming announcement.

 

[klang]

are suffering genuine hardship from loss of income due to the coronavirus pandemic

that's the bit open to interpretation I guess...

 

[klang]

anybody else got this? I think I'm eligible...

ATOMIC SUPLEX ?

 

[Petcha]

I'm going to try again later. Hopefully it's just sheer numbers after the underwhelming announcement.

Keep trying. I was lucky enough to do the online bit before the queue thing seemed to come along but for the next step be prepared to literally put on your phone on speakerphone beside for an entire day while you watch your boxset or whatever and be lucky enough to hear the person come on and say 'hi, can i help you?' after 6 odd hours.

 

[Petcha]

It's this bizarre situation where I can't really get furious at the government on this particular issue. Nobody, but nobody saw this coming so quickly and getting enough trained up call centre operators on board would have been impossible. There really arent any scapegoats here. Perhaps they could have improved the IT system earlier in anticipation of UC apps?

The whole June first payment thing is awful but I don't see how they could do it any sooner, or what their motive would be to slow it down. We've all been blindsided.

 

[klang]

There really arent any scapegoats here.

systematically screwing up the benefits system and pushing people into zero hours was always gonna end in tears.

 

[Petcha]

systematically screwing up the benefits system and pushing people into zero hours was always gonna end in tears.

Yeh, you're right actually. I was thinking about the more immediate reaction, but yeh.

 

[Petcha]

Let's face it, 'Freelancer' is just a fancy word for a temp/zero hour worker in most cases. And usually relatively well paid.

One silver lining is that they (and I'm one of them) will need to see what we've glossed over in the past. Universal credit. And the shit people have had to put up with for years. The learning curve aint gonna be flat.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Self employment is a bag of shit ime. Load of bollocks. Be your own boss my fucking arse, its just working without rights. Would rather some cunt moaning I'm ten minutes late if that same cunt was also legally obliged to put money into a pension for me etc

 

[Anju]

It's this bizarre situation where I can't really get furious at the government on this particular issue. Nobody, but nobody saw this coming so quickly and getting enough trained up call centre operators on board would have been impossible. There really arent any scapegoats here. Perhaps they could have improved the IT system earlier in anticipation of UC apps?

The whole June first payment thing is awful but I don't see how they could do it any sooner, or what their motive would be to slow it down. We've all been blindsided.

Surely it's no more complicated than the PAYE system. In fact it should be easier to do as the payment is direct and to one person based on figures they already have. With PAYE they will have to ensure companies are actually paying the money on to their staff and will presumably need to check that people aren't giving pay rises or fake jobs to friends and family, plus whether revenue / profits were affected.

I just don't trust them to be either honest or competent.

 

[Petcha]

Call the CAB before you call DWP btw. They give you a proper breakdown of what you can probably get but I suspect the DWP will not exactly be forthcoming.

 

[chainsawjob]

That's one of the things the chancellor has been lobbied about. If you are the director of your own company you are probably an office holder rather than an employee and therefore probably not entitled to the 80% of your PAYE earnings via the Coronvirus Job Rentention Scheme. We're still waiting for clarification on that!

ETA: Proper Tidy is right. Even if you were deemed to be an employee of your own company you'd only get 80% of your wages and no percentage of any dividend you would have taken to top it up.

Thanks for this. I'm trying to get my head round the position my OH is in. He is a Ltd, just him no employees. I think he had no choice but to be, because he couldn't get work through agencies in his industry without operating this way, when they stopped using umbrella companies (I think). So it looks like no 80% of PAYE for him. This is being lobbied about though and might change? Perhaps he needs to look into grants to businessess?

To complicate things he had 3 months of the last financial year working direct as a permanent empolyee, but then went back to freelance, as he's been for the last 10 years. I'm on minumum wage zero hours (very minimal hours in the last month as it's low season) so should get 80% of not very much at all at some point.

Just had a quick google of how you go about claiming UC if you're a one-person limited company, and it looks unclear as to whether you're treated as self-employed or an employee.

 

[Leafster]

Thanks for this. I'm trying to get my head round the position my OH is in. He is a Ltd, just him no employees. I think he had no choice but to be, because he couldn't get work through agencies in his industry without operating this way, when they stopped using umbrella companies (I think). So it looks like no 80% of PAYE for him. This is being lobbied about though and might change? Perhaps he needs to look into grants to businessess?

To complicate things he had 3 months of the last financial year working direct as a permanent empolyee, but then went back to freelance, as he's been for the last 10 years. I'm on minumum wage zero hours (very minimal hours in the last month as it's low season) so should get 80% of not very much at all at some point.

Just had a quick google of how you go about claiming UC if you're a one-person limited company, and it looks unclear as to whether you're treated as self-employed or an employee.

I haven't had a chance to investigate it further but there might possibly be some good news on Owner Managed Business (sole director/employee of a ltd company). I got an email from HMRC last night which said "Directors of their own company paid through PAYE, may be able to get support using the Job Retention Scheme"

I'm going to investigate further...

 

[chainsawjob]

Thanks Leafster, yeah I'll carry on investigating too.

I just came across this link, but I think it's for self-employed who aren't limited companies Claim a grant through the coronavirus (COVID-19) Self-employment Income Support Scheme

 

[Leafster]

Thanks Leafster, yeah I'll carry on investigating too.

I just came across this link, but I think it's for self-employed who aren't limited companies Claim a grant through the coronavirus (COVID-19) Self-employment Income Support Scheme

Yep, that's the newly announced scheme just for those who fill in the self-employed (or partnership) pages of a self-assessment tax return.

 

[Petcha]

Virtually everyone in my industry (creative) is Limited. Have they just forgotten about them?

By nature creatives are not usually particularly good financially, IR35 was already fucking with our heads and now this. IR35 seems a distant worry now!

 

[Proper Tidy]

Virtually everyone in my industry (creative) is Limited. Have they just forgotten about them?

By nature creatives are not usually particularly good financially, IR35 was already fucking with our heads and now this. IR35 seems a distant worry now!

Funnily enough this has an affect on IR35 imo. Eg if people operating through a PSC (ltd company) outside of IR35 and paying themselves mainly in dividend without employees or licenced premises (so no business rates) are excluded from help for employees or self employed then strengthens why shouldn't be deemed employees for tax purposes - whereas if contractors lobby for same help as employees/self employed then why should they benefit from lower tax rates on dividend. Sunak hinted at this argument yesterday

All this would be easily solved by making dividend and income tax rates the same and binning off the concept of limited liability imo but there we are

 

[Petcha]

I've been asked by my flatmate to ask you wise people about her situation.

She's on a zero hour contract, and has been with the same place for five years (she's a barista). So she's unsure whether she's entitled to 80% or anything or just UE?

 

[Leafster]

I've been asked by my flatmate to ask you wise people about her situation.

She's on a zero hour contract, and has been with the same place for five years (she's a barista). So she's unsure whether she's entitled to 80% or anything or just UE?

She should be entitled to the 80%. It will be based on the amount she earned in the same period last year or an average of her period earnings in the last year (which ever is higher).

See this: Check if you could be covered by the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme

 

[Petcha]

She should be entitled to the 80%. It will be based on the amount she earned in the same period last year or an average of her period earnings in the last year (which ever is higher).

See this: Check if you could be covered by the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme

Thank you! From my flatmate

 

[Proper Tidy]

Depending on number of hours/earnings she might find UC better though. Basically if she has earnt more than a few hundred most months then she'll be better off with the 80%

 

[Petcha]

Depending on number of hours/earnings she might find UC better though. Basically if she has earnt more than a few hundred most months then she'll be better off with the 80%

Yeh, she generally does four days a week at not very much I imagine but it must be more than a few hundred

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Need to look at my tax returns. I'm pretty sure I've earned more by free lancing. Could bring about a strange situation. I do agency work over the winter, which isn't as well paid as the summer freelance. I'm still doing agency as summer work is basically cancelled.

Does this mean I could paid by the government whilst doing agency work?

 

[Proper Tidy]

Need to look at my tax returns. I'm pretty sure I've earned more by free lancing. Could bring about a strange situation. I do agency work over the winter, which isn't as well paid as the summer freelance. I'm still doing agency as summer work is basically cancelled.

Does this mean I could paid by the government whilst doing agency work?

Yeah but will be recouped at self assessment I think. Still, interest free loan for 18 months

 

[Petcha]

Well, I can report the UC thing was extremely easy once you get to the 'phone interview' stage. Asked a couple of basic questions. They take your word for everything, rent etc and said they might check everything once the apocalypse is over. He said they're operating some kind of new policy called 'Trust and connect' or something where they're barely checking any details. And my money's there as an advance loan immediately at a repayment rate of 10%. Then the first official one comes in 5 weeks.

Can't quite believe how easy that was. He couldn't wait to get me off the phone to move onto the next one. What a relief

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Yeah but will be recouped at self assessment I think. Still, interest free loan for 18 months

Ah. Cheers for that. Hopefully can manage without, but wouldn't turn down free money

 

[Proper Tidy]

Ah. Cheers for that. Hopefully can manage without, but wouldn't turn down free money

You know I'm not sure now I think about it, it's just supposed to be taxable income, so usual 10% NI over 9.5k and 20% tax over 12.5k, then 2% and 40% over 50k, if you have govt money plus earned income I dunno if they claw the govt money back or if whole lot is just all taxed at usual rates.

HMRC will contact you anyway, if I got contacted obviously I'd take even if you have to pay it back later

 

[kazza007]

that's the bit open to interpretation I guess...

Ive been self employed for 12 years, never tried to keep profits deliberately low, still working through this, not sure I've suffered 'hardship', but I'm certainly claiming this freebie when they screw us with national insurance next time.