France bans short-haul flights to cut carbon emissions

[editor]

Can we have this for the UK please?

France has banned domestic short-haul flights where train alternatives exist, in a bid to cut carbon emissions.
The law came into force two years after lawmakers had voted to end routes where the same journey could be made by train in under two-and-a-half hours.
The ban all but rules out air travel between Paris and cities including Nantes, Lyon and Bordeaux, while connecting flights are unaffected.

France bans short-haul flights to cut carbon emissions

All domestic air routes are stopped where the same journey could be made by train in under 2.5 hours.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Elpenor]

As far as I understand it there will still be flights between the cities, though only bookable if flying say Nantes - Paris - New York as opposed to Nantes - Paris

 

[Spymaster]

That’s not unreasonable. They’re only banning flights between cities where train services of 2.5 hours or less exist. The main domestic flights in the UK are between London and Scotland, London and N.Ireland, London and Cornwall; and Cornwall/Bristol and Manchester/Newcastle/Scotland. These would all be unaffected.

The only popular UK route it would cut out is London-Manchester, which is a bit silly anyway.

 

[LDC]

As the article says it was initially proposed to be 4 hours, but airline lobbying got it reduced to 2.5.

 

[Spymaster]

As the article says it was initially proposed to be 4 hours, but airline lobbying got it reduced to 2.5.

Yes. The same would happen here of course.

The other advantage that France has over the UK is a properly functioning, reasonably priced railway network.

 

[Riklet]

It's a good idea. I am in France at the moment and it's impressive I could be in Paris in less than 3.5 hours from the other end of the country. If I so wished. I see Marseille won't be affected. Like it or not it's still cheaper to fly with Ryanair a lot of the time in France.. the train is often not cheap nowadays.

But like a typical shit BBC story it doesn't contain any actual journalistic research. When does this come into effect? will there be a grace period? who is responsible for checking that you are proceeding to an onward destination further afield?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

It's a good idea. I am in France at the moment and it's impressive I could be in Paris in less than 3.5 hours from the other end of the country. If I so wished. I see Marseille won't be affected. Like it or not it's still cheaper to fly with Ryanair a lot of the time in France.. the train is often not cheap nowadays.

But like a typical shit BBC story it doesn't contain any actual journalistic research. When does this come into effect? will there be a grace period? who is responsible for checking that you are proceeding to an onward destination further afield?

It should have covered Marseille, it's nuts that it doesn't.

And allowing flights to exist only for connecting passengers means the same number of flights will operate, only with not many passengers on board, so net result is fuck all gained.

A typical fudge that is the hallmark of modern politics.

 

[Elpenor]

The French do at least have a decent high speed rail network that includes connections to key airports.

 

[Riklet]

Next Wednesday you can get an advance single Marseille Paris for 35 euros. There's quite a few 49€ tickets other days too. Cheapest for today 75€.

Puts the shocking state of Britain's railways into perspective.

 

[Spymaster]

Next Wednesday you can get an advance single Marseille Paris for 35 euros.

The equivalent UK journey is London - Aberdeen, which you can do today for £110 if you're lucky and can leave immediately. It'll take 7 hours and 1 change but hopefully you'll get a seat. You can get a direct train for £180 though

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

It's not all great in France though, their regional train service is crap compared to the UK's and just booked a Nice to Paris for today at 1202, takes six hours and one minute, cost £195.95...

 

[Artaxerxes]

Can we have this for the UK please?



View attachment 375891

France bans short-haul flights to cut carbon emissions

All domestic air routes are stopped where the same journey could be made by train in under 2.5 hours.

www.bbc.co.uk

If we did this here by the same metric we’d just ban flights from London to Luton

 

[Artaxerxes]

This is also fairly toothless unless form action is taken against private jet use

 

[Flavour]

toothless, but symbolically useful. hopefully pushes others to enact similar legislation. short haul flights within Europe (including international) need to be cut down drastically. I'd increase the limit to cutting all plane journeys where a train takes 8 hours or less.

 

[WouldBe]

Can we have this for the UK please?

We'd need a high speed rail network first.

 

[T & P]

We'd need a high speed rail network first.

Or at the very least, a rail network that doesn't charge you more for a domestic train journey than what an airline would charge you to fly you to Greece.

 

[Spymaster]

Or at the very list, a rail network that doesn't charge you more for a domestic train journey than what an airline would charge you to fly you to Greece.

Never mind Greece. For £40 more than that London-Aberdeen train fare, Norse Atlantic will fly you from Gatwick to New York (£220).

 

[skyscraper101]

I would happily take the train to Paris, Brussels and beyond if it were the same price or even a similar price to flying. It's nuts that the Eurostar is often double the cost or more of a flight. They need to drastically lower those costs if they want to get me to switch.

 

[Spymaster]

I would happily take the train to Paris, Brussels and beyond if it were the same price or even a similar price to flying. It's nuts that the Eurostar is often double the cost or more of a flight. They need to drastically lower those costs if they want to get me to switch.

And of course, people who don't live in London have the double-whammy of getting ripped off for the train to get from their home to St Pancras too!

Eurostar only works for Londoners; and even then, only those within easy strike of KXSP.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

And of course, people who don't live in London have the double-whammy of getting ripped off for the train to get from their home to St Pancras too!

Eurostar only works for Londoners; and even then, only those within easy strike of KXSP.

Frau Bahn and BB2 will be on Eurostar in July at 7am, they have to stay in a hotel the night before as there's no way to get there in time by train from here...

 

[MickiQ]

Does this ban the airlines from flying planes along these routes or just ban passengers from doing it? If it is the second and not the first then the most that is likely to happen is a smaller plane being used because there are fewer passengers. I'm not sure it will achieve even that since the airlines are going to want to fill seats and will probably turn a blind eye to people flying domestic rather than a connecting flight.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Eurostar got shafted by brexit and it’s location is awful for expanding waiting and facilities.

It was once supposed to have gone as far as Glasgow but of course we can’t have nice things

 

[belboid]

It's a good idea. I am in France at the moment and it's impressive I could be in Paris in less than 3.5 hours from the other end of the country. If I so wished. I see Marseille won't be affected. Like it or not it's still cheaper to fly with Ryanair a lot of the time in France.. the train is often not cheap nowadays.

But like a typical shit BBC story it doesn't contain any actual journalistic research. When does this come into effect? will there be a grace period? who is responsible for checking that you are proceeding to an onward destination further afield?

It's been two years since the ban was passed by the French legislature and six months since the EU said it was okay for them to go ahead with it - tho not for the Marseille flights cos the trains aren't yet good enough. You simply won't be able to book a Nantes to Paris flight unless it is as part of one going somewhere significantly further (which will mean there are fewer flights).

 

[kabbes]

And of course, people who don't live in London have the double-whammy of getting ripped off for the train to get from their home to St Pancras too!

Eurostar only works for Londoners; and even then, only those within easy strike of KXSP.

It also works for insurance people whose company is paying for their travel.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The Marseille thing is a bad fudge. Looking it up, a direct train from Paris takes between 3 hrs 20 mins and 3 hrs 30 mins. A flight is just over an hour. Once you have factored in getting to and from the airports, checking in, etc, the plane is no quicker.

750 km in three and a half hours, city centre to city centre, is pretty good!

No reason other than cost not to take the train. That is a biggie, though. A return from Paris to Marseille leaving this evening and returning tomorrow costs 250 euros.

 

[Spymaster]

The Marseille thing is a bad fudge. Looking it up, a direct train from Paris takes between 3 hrs 20 mins and 3 hrs 30 mins. A flight is just over an hour. Once you have factored in getting to and from the airports, checking in, etc, the plane is no quicker.

This ignores the fact you have to get to the main train stations too. Many people live closer to the airports than the relevant train stations.

Similarly, people in SE London, Kent, Sussex, are likely better off flying to Paris from Southend or Gatwick, than coming into Central London and getting the Eurostar out again. Domestic flights-wise, it's rarely faster to take the train to Scotland from London, almost never cheaper, and from anywhere in the South/South West of England, doing anything other than flying is probably efficiency and financially imprudent.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

A lot more people will live an easy journey away from Marseille train station than from Marseille airport.

It takes half an hour to get from the airport to the city centre. Be interested to know what percentage of passengers arriving at the airport head straight for Marseille centre, arriving at the same train station that the high-speed train from Paris arrives at. Bet it's a high number.

Cost is the fucker. The fact that flying is often significantly cheaper than taking the train is the thing that needs to change. And this appears also to apply in France.

 

[kabbes]

This ignores the fact you have to get to the main train stations too. Many people live closer to the airports than the relevant train stations.

Similarly, people in SE London, Kent, Sussex, are likely better off flying to Paris from Southend or Gatwick, than coming into Central London and getting the Eurostar out again. Domestic flights-wise, it's rarely faster to take the train to Scotland from London, almost never cheaper, and from anywhere in the South/South West of England, doing anything other than flying is probably efficiency and financially imprudent.

There are very few Gatwick-Paris flights, though. I know this because I have to get to Paris fairly regularly, and to get there and back in a day by flight involves leaving very early and coming back very late. By contrast, there are trains to Paris leaving every hour or two. I can leave the house at about 7:30, make it to a meeting in Paris at 2pm and then get back home for 8:30pm. This used to be even better when the Eurostar stopped in Ebbsfleet International, because I could drive there in less than an hour, and take 30 minutes of that hour off the train journey time. I could go to a meeting in Paris and my working day would be no longer than usual. Unfortunately, however, post-COVID, they still haven't yet reopened the Ebbsfleet stop.

 

[xenon]

This ignores the fact you have to get to the main train stations too. Many people live closer to the airports than the relevant train stations.

Similarly, people in SE London, Kent, Sussex, are likely better off flying to Paris from Southend or Gatwick, than coming into Central London and getting the Eurostar out again. Domestic flights-wise, it's rarely faster to take the train to Scotland from London, almost never cheaper, and from anywhere in the South/South West of England, doing anything other than flying is probably efficiency and financially imprudent.

In Kent? You would just go to Ebbsfleet or Ashford. I’ve got family down that way and I’ve been on the Eurostar thus. Obviously it doesn’t make much sense if I was just going from here, Bristol. and yeah as mentioned before, for me to get to Scotland from here is much easier to fly. And significantly quicker obviously. was cheaper last time as well.

 

[Elpenor]

Ebbsfleet and Ashford services have not operated since 2020 and show no signs of being reinstated. I shouldn’t have thought Border Force or Eurostar are keen to go back there as there were only a few services which were probably low yield plus the demand will have perhaps dried up as people readjust.

I’m going to Marseille this year but for various reasons from where I live (between Plymouth and Exeter) it made more sense to fly from Heathrow.