Footballer Marcus Rashford fights for free school meals
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You’re right that we’re talking about different bottom up things. But also I guess we simply disagree about the size and role of Government and the degree of power it has or should have over our lives. To me, you guys show an almost touching faith in what you expect of the State. And your advocating a dependency on it that I think is dangerous. Like I say, we have very different political views. (And mine are hardly ‘well informed/ well read/ academic’ etc anyway). But there ya go.Huh???
That's exactly the key criteria - that such change is forced on government by mass action (and yes, grassroots-driven), rather than passively waiting for the paternalistic state to toss a few crumbs in our lap. It has to be that way.
With respect, |I think you're kinda missing the point. The sort of change I want - and the type of organisations I think we need to achieve that - are not charity. They are enforcing, rather than weakening, the important principle that provision for the social and economic needs, and welfare, of the people should, must be the responsibility and obligation of the government of the day.
Charity - however well-meaning and admirable those providing it are, ditto their intentions and motivations - is ultimately a cop-out. It enables governments to wriggle free of those obligations, which Tories will always seek to do. We must engage in explicitly political action to stop them doing so.
Right now, unfortunately, thousands upon thousands of children need that charity. They have no choice. So - chapeau! To all those cafes, and restaurants, and the rest who have magnificently stepped up over the past couple of days.
But it can never be a long term solution. It's a band-aid on a gaping wound.
We're talking about two different types of grassroots, bottom-up things.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
At the risk of derailing this important thread, I can't help but notice the story about BoZo and the US election on the left pane.
The urge to scream CUNT!! at the top of my voice is very strong
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
It's not a matter of faith. It's a matter of the magnitude of resources that can be marshalled. Society doesn't just stop existing above the local government level. There's infrastructure and issues that cover much larger populations and geographical areas. Councils and local authorities also don't have much independence from Westminster, so they are thus limited in what they can legally do.
Child poverty is a nationwide problem. Councils aren't all going to be able or willing to do much. Why should the solution depend on a postcode lottery?
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
With no/minimum state involvement you'd have no trains, no roads, no NHS, no council housing (like now), no infrastructure.
And no check on big businesses taking the piss out of their workers and customers, no benefits, no protections for the homeless or vulnerable or ill or old. Yes you can leave some of it to peoples' families to look after them. Unless the families are in the same position and likewise have no money.
A civilized society costs money to keep going. We'd have far fewer problems if the rich were just taxed fairly and not allowed to hide their money overseas. It's not a nanny state that I want, it's just some investment in society and our people.
And no check on big businesses taking the piss out of their workers and customers, no benefits, no protections for the homeless or vulnerable or ill or old. Yes you can leave some of it to peoples' families to look after them. Unless the families are in the same position and likewise have no money.
A civilized society costs money to keep going. We'd have far fewer problems if the rich were just taxed fairly and not allowed to hide their money overseas. It's not a nanny state that I want, it's just some investment in society and our people.
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butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The state is what we end up with to defend ourselves from people like you.
purenarcotic
Conveniently Pocket Sized
I’ve noticed a lot of the businesses stating there is a daily limit on what they will be offering. So where do the people who miss out then go? Who feeds the kids then?
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
I am another who is not particularly well-read on such things, but it's long seemed to me that with such a massively networked and interconnected entity that is humanity, power will always pool to some extent. At that point it's a question of whether you want that power to pool with the state, or private individuals.
People put as much faith in the benevolence and integrity of business owners and other powerful individuals as others do with the state.
People put as much faith in the benevolence and integrity of business owners and other powerful individuals as others do with the state.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Another cunt to add to the list:
www.independent.co.uk
and a 16 year old with superb statement
MP Philip Davies brands 16-year-old ‘intolerant’ for supporting free school meals extension
Philip Davies says pupil is ‘virtue signalling’ but later apologises
www.independent.co.uk
and a 16 year old with superb statement
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
He's been on the list for a while; think he was first or second, actually.Another cunt to add to the list:
MP Philip Davies brands 16-year-old ‘intolerant’ for supporting free school meals extension
Philip Davies says pupil is ‘virtue signalling’ but later apologises
and a 16 year old with superb statement
Just so hard to keep up, so many volunteers gleefully throwing themselves onto the list.
editor
hiraethified
Tory filth
dorseteye.com
The Expenses of the 300+ MPs Who Voted Against Free School Meals for Children - Dorset Eye
This Is How Much They Have Claimed in Expenses in the Last Year 322 MPs have recently voted against free meals for children in dire circumstances. These MPs have believe that poor children are not entitled to free meals, whilst simultaneously claiming tens of thousands in expenses each year...
dorseteye.com
Sounds more as if she's forgotten the old saying: when you're in a hole, stop digging!
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
It's not about 'faith', not is it about 'dependency on the state'. It's about what our votes mean. It's about where our taxes should go. It's about how the State, and our - yes, our - public services should be directed, and to what end, and to help whom. It's about ensuring those immense resources shouldbe prioritised towards helping those who have most need of that help.
Whether I like it or not - and I don't, not particularly - the State (in this case the UK State) has immense heft, size, power and resources. It probably always will have. So I want to see those directed to the betterment of the masses, and especially, that part of the masses who are in most need of that betterment, that assistance. I want tos ee the resources of the state directed democratically towards their empowerment, so as to advance a fundamnetal shift in welath - and with it, power - towards ordinary working people, rather than profiteering tory scum.
What on earth could be wrong with that?
cantsin
Well-Known Member
Our local toerag MP Selaine Saxby has properly bitten off more than she can chew with this one - now bleating about having been ' abused for 48 hrs', after being ' taken out of context' , just like her pal Bradley... local social media's ablaze with contempt for her, have never really seen anti Tory sentiment on this scale round here before
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
Not so much that, but "the State, when it can be directed democratically for the greater good"
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I think the answer to that complaint should always be the same: "OK, yer right honourable, make the statement again right here, and do it with the context you think it warrants."
She'll bluster, mumble, and fluff, or try to change the statement, but the one thing she will be completely unable to do is to say it in any way - or with any context - that makes it OK. And, of course, if she's smart, she'll refuse to say anything...which says all it needs to.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Tory filth
View attachment 235838
The Expenses of the 300+ MPs Who Voted Against Free School Meals for Children - Dorset Eye
This Is How Much They Have Claimed in Expenses in the Last Year 322 MPs have recently voted against free meals for children in dire circumstances. These MPs have believe that poor children are not entitled to free meals, whilst simultaneously claiming tens of thousands in expenses each year...
Going through that list is seems there is a third Hunt, Jez, Tom and a Jane. A bunch of hunts.
Also note Mogg claimed nothing that year, very good of him, but if he needs claim nothing why do some claim nearly £90k?
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
while not wanting to defend all MPs, he's probably already got a family house in london.
and again not wanting to defend MPs who take the piss, i don't think it's unreasonable that an MP from somewhere remote should get something for needing to travel to / live in London for most of the week
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
There should be a furnished housing block in Westminster where they can stay free of charge. Philip Davies will explain to them why it is not necessary for it to be fit for human habitation.
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Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Have you considered a job as Ben Bradley's spin doctor?
Indeed. It could be modeled on the Kent Intake Unit where refugee children are locked up, in filthy conditions, no beds, clothes, heating or even windows...and woken up in the middle of the night (4am) to be interviewed (interrogated) by emigration officials.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Claiming nothing is a bit odd. Usually a large part of the claim is for a secretary or researcher, and office expenses like computers and photocopying and rent and council tax for the constituency office. They're reasonable expenses to claim because they are genuinely work-related. So if it's zero then the MP is either paying out of their own pocket, which is a good thing for them to do considering their income, but Rees Mogg, hah - or not doing their job properly.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
At a total guess I would imagine that he’s done that to make a show of it, he certainly doesn’t need the expenses, average seems to be around £40K, that really is chicken feed to him. I can’t be arsed to check, but would imagine Zac Goldsmith wasn’t a regular customer down the expenses counter either . Happy to be proved wrong of course...
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