Feminism - where are the threads?
- Thread starter JudithB
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I tried to read a book by Alessandra Lemma which was recommended as a good basic introduction to Freud’s ideas, but gave up. Don’t get me wrong, I think Freud was a great thinker in lots of respects, a genius even maybe if you believe in them, but my god these people cannot explain an idea in a straightforward way if their lives depended on it
Leeds met uni's library decided loads of his stuff wasn't relevant back in the late 90s/early 00s I think. I briefly did a "reading gender" module as part of an english course there last decade. My tutor was incandescent because the de-stocked books were burned, and she was furious at the connotations around that. E2a and that the library didn't see him as a valuable resource worth retaining even if they thought his theories were outdated/wrong/whatever
There used to be (possibly still is) an artwork/installation in one of the met's buildings off woodhouse lane, with etched glass books on the wall from floor to ceiling. She chose to lobby for one of Freuds books to go up there. It did
I sometimes get his ideas, I don't subscribe to most of them though. I think
There used to be (possibly still is) an artwork/installation in one of the met's buildings off woodhouse lane, with etched glass books on the wall from floor to ceiling. She chose to lobby for one of Freuds books to go up there. It did
I sometimes get his ideas, I don't subscribe to most of them though. I think
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Freud’s genius was surely in realising that you need to approach behaviour and beliefs as something that goes deeper than what is apparent on the surface. To some degree, it’s reasonable to review his actual theory in the same way that we review any other theory from his era. It’s not like we still treat the Rutherford-Bohr model of the atom, of similar vintage, as the final word in atomic structure, let alone earlier attempts at it, but we respect the insight behind it and what it got right.
I’d love to discuss Freud more, although probably not on this thread. He did notice important stuff for the first time, like the way we learn to interact with other people in early childhood unconsciously influences our relationships in adult life. And the unconscious in general. And lots of stuff about the expression of emotional problems as physical symptoms, which is now clearly recognised (and even more interestingly will no doubt be explained by shit like epigenetics and neuroendocrinology and neuroimmunology in this century too). Defences, they are interesting.Leeds men's library decided loads of his stuff wasn't relevant back in the late 90s/early 00s I think. I briefly d7d a "reading gender" module as part of an english course there last decade. My tutor was incandescent because the de-stocked books were burned, and she was furious at the connotations around that.
There used to be an artwork/installation in one of the buildings off woodhouse lane, with etched glass books on the wall from floor to ceiling. She chose to lobby for one if Freuds books to go up there.
I sometimes get his ideas, I don't subscribe to most of them though. I think
But the idea that when girls discover they lack a penis and are therefore inferior beings leads to them being disillusioned with their mothers and fantasising there fathers will impregnate them is... absolutely bonkers. Even if you don’t take it literally.
I tried to read a book by Alessandra Lemma which was recommended as a good basic introduction to Freud’s ideas, but gave up. Don’t get me wrong, I think Freud was a great thinker in lots of respects, a genius even maybe if you believe in them, but my god these people cannot explain an idea in a straightforward way if their lives depended on it
IMO Alessandra Lemma is a very clear and critical writer but I'm not aware of that book, I'm only aware of books she's written for practitioners. What's the book?
It would be more helpful to read a book that applies current psychoanalytic thinking to the field you're interested in - The Tavistock Series are written very clearly I think.
Yes I think so.
I’ll take a look. I read two chapters of Introduction to the Practice of Psychodynamic Psychotherapy. It wasn’t very... introductory!
(as mentioned previously this might just be my brain)
On a vaguely related note... I've been wanting to find out a bit more about transactional analysis, but from a female centred perspective? Someone refused to lend me their book about it from the 70s or 80s? because she said it was hideously sexist and upsetting. I'm a bit less fragile than that but I get her point...
If anyone on thread has any recommendations that would be great - I don't want to waste time and energy looking for something that might not exist
I’ll take a look. I read two chapters of Introduction to the Practice of Psychodynamic Psychotherapy. It wasn’t very... introductory!
I think that's for practitioners/trainees who will already have done a pre-clinical training.
Tavistock Series is also for a professional readership but are written to convey the breadth and range of psychoanalytic work done currently and although technical language is used, there are examples given. I'm sure I've recommended this one before: Managing Vulnerability: The Underlying Dynamics of Systems of Care.
If you let me know what you're interested in, i'm sure i can find something for you to give you a flavour.
I’ll give it a go.
I’ve had luck with this:
Which does explain ideas in plain English, and is short, and is also critical which is refreshing as I think the guy is a Freudian professor at Oxford. That’s where I got the description about the Oedipus complex above. Stuff like Kleins paranoid-schizoid position I’ve just given up trying to understand and have kind of concluded that and the Oedipus is just literally made up (then often dressed in massively complex language).
I just wouldn't start with something like that, it's too abstract. That's why I said read something that applies the thinking to your field/area of interest, it would make more sense to you, and you might find it resonates in a way that a book like that won't.
Okay will give it a go over Xmas.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Re: the Eton teacher video controversy. The teacher has been criticised by former pupils who have written an open letter supporting the head teacher's decision to dismiss him:
www.theguardian.com
Former Eton students write letter backing under-fire headteacher
Video over which English teacher was fired was ‘intellectually feeble’ and misogynistic, says open letter
Was it Games People Play? It’s a brilliant book but very... of its time!On a vaguely related note... I've been wanting to find out a bit more about transactional analysis, but from a female centred perspective? Someone refused to lend me their book about it from the 70s or 80s? because she said it was hideously sexist and upsetting. I'm a bit less fragile than that but I get her point...
If anyone on thread has any recommendations that would be great - I don't want to waste time and energy looking for something that might not exist
I don't know - she wouldn't even tell me the title
Or I can try and find a paper or article or podcast for you if you have an area of interest. But, you know, it's not for everyone.
I bet it was — fits the description perfectly. It’s the classic text — Berne was the pioneer of TA and he writes with real charm, simply and entertainingly. There’s a lot to take from it but Berne would have been the first to say his kind of analysis is always embedded in a particular culture and he was writing from within an incredibly sexist culture of middle-class America in the 1960s. Read it and mentally translate the messages to the 2020s, I’d say.I don't know - she wouldn't even tell me the title
Don’t look especially but if you come across one about medically unexplained symptoms, non-epileptic seizures, or any kind of functional neurology particularly in children then great. Especially short YouTube videos, Ted talks, anything that explains Freud’s or psychodynamic ideas generally, in a straightforward and engaging way. I find them so hard to grasp, so even adding in a layer of jargon quickly becomes impossible for me to understand.
Same with feminism or sociology like what kabbes brought up. Any short ‘explainer’ videos then sling em up!
Absolutely this!
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
I've just been doing some basic training about different learning styles and this is a great illustration - I can't stand YouTube videos and always want written text whereas it sounds like you are the opposite.
I don’t mind written, but it quickly becomes ’academic’ whereas Ted talks and History of Ideas kind of stuff keeps it basic and accessible I find. If there was a Feynman or Dawkins or Medawar of psychdynamics or politics I’d be all over that. I read Talking to my Daughter about Capitalism by Yanis Varoufakis (Greek guy) and that was brilliant in explaining capitalism for beginners. Would love the same for Marx and Freud and feminism ideas.
He didn't get stick, he was asked why that particular paper with its specialist language to illustrate his point.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Found this podcast version of Top Girls by Angela McRobbie.
Watched it and it contains a lot less "academic" jargon.
She is good speaker.
Covers the Blair period up to the Cameron coalition government.
She outlines other thinkers views. Nancy Fraser who thought Second Wave Feminism allowed itself to be eventually incorporated into the Neo Liberal project.
In contrast she thinks there was an attack on Feminism portraying Second Wave feminism as old and not necessary anymore.
The Blair years saw what she calls a new settlement. Young women were encouraged to get on. To have economic and more sexual freedoms. There was a de politicisation of Feminism to be replaced by individualised consumer freedom for young women. Ideas of politcal collective struggle / equality were replaced by consumer citizenship. The "Phallic" young women she explains as young women being allowed some of the freedoms of men to get drunk and have sex without criticism. She argues this was limited freedom. Get pregnant and become a single parent and the New Labour state didnt like that. ( I do remember Blair governments had partiular dislike of single parents)
She goes onto the Cameron government. Where saw the the rise of the Conservative feminist. Which she sees as continuation of the Blair government take on women.
She does say at end more recently young women have started move to more political feminism.
friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
There is alot more of it. Figures on violent crime/ murder show men commit much more violent offences than women. I have no idea if this genetically programmed or learned behaviour - I suspect both are involved.
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