Fatalities and critical injuries at Asake concert crush at the Brixton Academy

[Plumdaff]

Asake concert crush: what happened on the night at London venue

Incident at Brixton O2 Academy led to two deaths, left one in critical condition and many needing hospital care

www.theguardian.com

A much more nuanced picture now emerges of poor / not enough security enabling people to walk in (not push) without tickets, leading to dangerous overcrowding when people with tickets arrived later and tried to get in an already busy venue. Add in lax then heavy-handed policing, and a final flash point in the foyer when people trying to leave the venue after the gig was called off met with the crush outside trying to get in.

Awful. But not a simple story of ticketless louts forcing their way in, surprise, surprise.

 

[A380]

Asake concert crush: what happened on the night at London venue

Incident at Brixton O2 Academy led to two deaths, left one in critical condition and many needing hospital care

www.theguardian.com

A much more nuanced picture now emerges of poor / not enough security enabling people to walk in (not push) without tickets, leading to dangerous overcrowding when people with tickets arrived later and tried to get in an already busy venue. Add in lax then heavy-handed policing, and a final flash point in the foyer when people trying to leave the venue after the gig was called off met with the crush outside trying to get in.

Awful. But not a simple story of ticketless louts forcing their way in, surprise, surprise.

I think they must have edited the article now . There is no mention of heavy handed policing, instead the two people quoted seem to be criticising the police for not intervening early enough.

This wider situation is why it’s never wise to make comments on what has happened until the circumstances have been looked at. The trouble is people then fill the gaps to fit the news cycle.

 

[thebackrow]

In the context of people blagging their way in (from the Guardian)

Only a week before, after a performance by Fred Again, users to the discussion site Discord said too many people had been allowed in. One user said the number of people admitted was “putting everyone in danger”.

Another said: “There are massive security flaws at the O2 Brixton show. If you want to get in you can … there’s a team of scalpers that work with the security team at the entrance of the venue.”

Milly Jenkins said she complained to the venue, the council and the Health and Safety Executive, when her daughter witnessed security staff taking money on the door for admission to the standing area at Slowtai concert in March. She said it was so crowded at least two people fainted and the show was interrupted.

 

[Diamond]

Not sure how much new light that article sheds. I'm pretty sure that the quotes from their main source have been recycled from earlier ones.

And the central thrust "it was blamed on ticketless fans unfairly" seems to be immediately contradicted by the account of "according to some who were there, many people had gained entry to the venue without tickets before the show began."

 

[jimbarkanoodle]

Asake concert crush: what happened on the night at London venue

Incident at Brixton O2 Academy led to two deaths, left one in critical condition and many needing hospital care

www.theguardian.com

A much more nuanced picture now emerges of poor / not enough security enabling people to walk in (not push) without tickets, leading to dangerous overcrowding when people with tickets arrived later and tried to get in an already busy venue. Add in lax then heavy-handed policing, and a final flash point in the foyer when people trying to leave the venue after the gig was called off met with the crush outside trying to get in.

Awful. But not a simple story of ticketless louts forcing their way in, surprise, surprise.

One of the contributors is the same person they used the other day, who said there were no barriers or barricades, but then complains about being hemmed in by barricades.

Another reckons all the people that broke in did so earlier on in the night, even though he didn't manage to gain access to the venue himself. Did he conduct interviews as people left the venue?

I hope The Guardian did a bit of due diligence on the accusations made against security, considering 1 of their team is among the dead.

 

[DaveCinzano]

I'm not doing that. I'm just saying in the light of things like Hillsborough and the confused picture in the immediate aftermath of events like this, it might be wise to be sceptical of the initial reports and narratives pushed by people who stand to gain from it being someone else's fault.

Flavours of 22nd July 2005 all over this

 

[A380]

Got to get something in the press as soon as possible. Even if it means making stuff up. See Hillsborough onwards, and prior too obvs.

 

[killer b]

I hope The Guardian did a bit of due diligence

would have been good to see some of that on this thread too tbf

 

[DaphneM]

People shouldn't jump to conclusions

 

[pbsmooth]

the article is a bit confused and seems to be set out to say can we blame the venue/police instead of the punters. not sure a load of random accounts, from people who also had no idea of the full picture of what was going on, really helps anyone.

 

[David Clapson]

Blame the fans at Hillsborough = blame the Nigerians at the Academy

 

[killer b]

not sure a load of random accounts, from people who also had no idea of the full picture of what was going on, really helps anyone.

Plenty of random accounts from people who had no idea of the full picture being bandied about as evidence earlier in the thread. What's changed?

 

[friedaweed]

I get the feeling that a lot of these (security/non Police) 'sniffer dogs' are nothing of the sort, and are there to make people shit themselves and use the amnesty boxes, or give up their stash when the dog handler says the 'dog has sniffed you'.

Security firms do tend to use larger dogs for drug detention. They are trained quite easily for that purpose and fairly accurate at detecting the mainstays that people will carry on their person. There is the intimidation factor of using a bigger dog as well because anyone would run and take a bite from a spaniel over a German shepherd any day.

Police sniffers are trained to sniff out a much more diverse number of different things and a lot of the time working in confined spaces which is why they'll use dogs like beagles, springers and the likes. An explosives dog will be trained to find just that and nothing else. A drug dog will mainly work on drugs but also cash. I met one once that could distinguish between both fake and real cash.

The utility dogs like the Belgian Malinois and the German Sheperds can sniff just as well as springers but because of their size and ability to ground someone they will usually be trained to sniff out human scent and trained for attack and restraint/search and rescue. They can also jump a bit higher in pursuit as well. I've seen a malinois go over an 8' fence like it was jumping over a garden gate.

I used to holiday sit a sniffer. Stupid as fuck and mad for it's ball.

 

[8ball]

Security firms do tend to use larger dogs for drug detention. They are trained quite easily for that purpose and fairly accurate at detecting the mainstays that people will carry on their person. There is the intimidation factor of using a bigger dog as well because anyone would run and take a bite from a spaniel over a German shepherd any day.

Interesting. Whenever I've seen sniffer dogs they've been diddy little things with various bystanders fawning over them as the security bods tried to shoo them away.
When they approach people, the people aren't intimidated so much as reacting as someone would if you brought them a puppy. You get told off for fussing them.

I'd just assumed smaller dogs were better at finding dodgy stuff (maybe because they can get into nooks and crannies etc. eg if checking a car for a bomb), but that's obv wrong.

 

[friedaweed]

Interesting. Whenever I've seen sniffer dogs they've been diddy little things with various bystanders fawning over them as the security bods tried to shoo them away.
I'd just assumed smaller dogs were better at finding dodgy stuff (maybe because they can get into nooks and crannies etc. eg if checking a car for a bomb), but that's obv wrong.

They can all sniff well but can also do it in different ways. Some dogs are better for smelling stuff on the wind, air scent, some better at flowing a distinct trail. Some dogs can find up to 50 distinct smell on single commands.

I've been to a training facility a few times watching them work. I watched a Spaniel doing a drug exercise one day and the copper hid a bag of coke in the loft of the training house and the dog found it in under 30 seconds from the front door of the gaff. It just sat there looking up at the hatch. All it wanted was it's ball back

 

[friedaweed]

Incidentally it's not unheard of these days of criminal gangs using sniffer dogs for obviously beneficial reasons.

 

[cuppa tee]

Blame the fans at Hillsborough = blame the Nigerians at the Academy

...literally noone has blamed 'nigerians'

 

[Elpenor]

Incidentally it's not unheard of these days of criminal gangs using sniffer dogs for obviously beneficial reasons.

Dogs are now trained to detect digital devices too - presumably because of the wealth of data generated from them which can be used as evidence

 

[trabuquera]

not sure a load of random accounts, from people who also had no idea of the full picture of what was going on, really helps anyone.

On this logic no major incident should be reported until the full police investigation / public enquiry has been completed and released. Which would be a rather different vision of what news is. Probably would be more sober and balanced, sure - but not providing current or reasonably recent reporting either. News outlets have to exercise judgement (particularly about quoting incomplete accounts from self-identified witnesses to events - and in avoiding libel by directly putting responsibility on other people only alleged to be there) - but basically going out and finding eyewitnesses is what first-hand journalism is meant to do.

 

[David Clapson]

...literally noone has blamed 'nigerians'

A lot of black locals will have. Ask around. Nigerians always get criticised. The fake ticket story rings true because whenever Nigerians are involved, there's a scam.

 

[A380]

... = blame the Nigerians at the Academy

Can"'t see a post saying that on here?

 

[A380]

A lot of black locals will have?..

Really?

 

[A380]

On this logic no major incident should be reported until the full police investigation / public enquiry has been completed and released. Which would be a rather different vision of what news is. Probably would be more sober and balanced, sure - but not providing current or reasonably recent reporting either. News outlets have to exercise judgement (particularly about quoting incomplete accounts from self-identified witnesses to events - and in avoiding libel by directly putting responsibility on other people only alleged to be there) - but basically going out and finding eyewitnesses is what first-hand journalism is meant to do.

I can't see a soultion. Trouble is a headline saying 'tragic situation caused by plethora of circumstances, many of which won't be fully identified until a detailed forensic investigation is concluded ' isn't going to enamour a hack to their sub editor. Better to blame some one right from the start.

 

[74drew]

Just to add. I was at NIN there earlier this year and we had balcony tickets. No problem at all jibbing in downstairs - ''were you in here before?'' -- ''yeah''

 

[killer b]

I can't see a soultion. Trouble is a headline saying 'tragic situation caused by plethora of circumstances, many of which won't be fully identified until a detailed forensic investigation is concluded ' isn't going to enamour a hack to their sub editor. Better to blame some one right from the start.

They did blame someone right from the start, a crowd of riotous fans with no tickets forcing their way into the venue. If it wasn't for reporting like this that tries to find out what actually happened, that would be the story everyone believed. In fact it will be the story most people believe, even with this corrective.

 

[friedaweed]

whenever Nigerians are involved, there's a scam.

The Xenforo racist alarm has gone off here can a mod please deactivate it?

 

[A380]

The Xenforo racist alarm has gone off here can a mod please deactivate it?

I should go back and edit my posts. I didn't realise the poster I was engaging with...

 

[killer b]

The Xenforo racist alarm has gone off here can a mod please deactivate it?

clapson is too ludicrous to bother with tbh.

 

[A380]

They did blame someone right from the start, a crowd of riotous fans with no tickets forcing their way into the venue. If it wasn't for reporting like this that tries to find out what actually happened, that would be the story everyone believed. In fact it will be the story most people believe, even with this corrective.

Who is 'they'? I must have missed that.

 

[friedaweed]

I should go back and edit my posts. I didn't realise the poster I was engaging with...

I'm thinking about throwing out most of my favourite pottery.