Fatalities and critical injuries at Asake concert crush at the Brixton Academy
- Thread starter DietCokeGirl
- Start date
History has taught us that we need to get away from lazy explanations like this where alleged 'ticketless fans' are blamed for a tragedy. As you say, multiple elements are likely to have caused this incident but casting blame upon young people who were just going to a gig is not on. According to the Guardian yesterday: 'Witnesses to the deadly crush outside the O2 Academy Brixton last Thursday have insisted many fans in the crowd outside had tickets, rejecting reports of a ticketless mob storming the venue.'
Worth reading up on how these crowd crushes happen and that the language used reporting on them apportions blame upon unwitting members of the crowd by using words such as' stampede' and 'trample':
Crowd crushes: how disasters like Itaewon happen, how can they be prevented, and the ‘stampede’ myth
Crowd crushes are wholly preventable, predictable and avoidable, experts say. Here is what we can learn from the Halloween crowd crush in Seoul
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Do they scan people's rickets & phones on the way in at the Academy?History has taught us that we need to get away from lazy explanations like this where alleged 'ticketless fans' are blamed for a tragedy. As you say, multiple elements are likely to have caused this incident but casting blame upon young people who were just going to a gig is not on. According to the Guardian yesterday: 'Witnesses to the deadly crush outside the O2 Academy Brixton last Thursday have insisted many fans in the crowd outside had tickets, rejecting reports of a ticketless mob storming the venue.'
Worth reading up on how these crowd crushes happen and that the language used reporting on them apportions blame upon unwitting members of the crowd by using words such as' stampede' and 'trample':
Crowd crushes: how disasters like Itaewon happen, how can they be prevented, and the ‘stampede’ myth
Crowd crushes are wholly preventable, predictable and avoidable, experts say. Here is what we can learn from the Halloween crowd crush in Seoulwww.theguardian.com
If they do there ought to be an accurate figure for how many were actually inside when this happened.
Also how many tickets were sold.
Therefore any surplus either must have had duplicate tickets or no tickets??
There is no way the Guardian or the fans outside know the precise status of the ticketing situation of those outsideHistory has taught us that we need to get away from lazy explanations like this where alleged 'ticketless fans' are blamed for a tragedy. As you say, multiple elements are likely to have caused this incident but casting blame upon young people who were just going to a gig is not on. According to the Guardian yesterday: 'Witnesses to the deadly crush outside the O2 Academy Brixton last Thursday have insisted many fans in the crowd outside had tickets, rejecting reports of a ticketless mob storming the venue.'
Worth reading up on how these crowd crushes happen and that the language used reporting on them apportions blame upon unwitting members of the crowd by using words such as' stampede' and 'trample':
Crowd crushes: how disasters like Itaewon happen, how can they be prevented, and the ‘stampede’ myth
Crowd crushes are wholly preventable, predictable and avoidable, experts say. Here is what we can learn from the Halloween crowd crush in Seoul
Blame the fans has an unpleasantly familiar ring to itHistory has taught us that we need to get away from lazy explanations like this where alleged 'ticketless fans' are blamed for a tragedy. As you say, multiple elements are likely to have caused this incident but casting blame upon young people who were just going to a gig is not on. According to the Guardian yesterday: 'Witnesses to the deadly crush outside the O2 Academy Brixton last Thursday have insisted many fans in the crowd outside had tickets, rejecting reports of a ticketless mob storming the venue.'
Worth reading up on how these crowd crushes happen and that the language used reporting on them apportions blame upon unwitting members of the crowd by using words such as' stampede' and 'trample':
Crowd crushes: how disasters like Itaewon happen, how can they be prevented, and the ‘stampede’ myth
Crowd crushes are wholly preventable, predictable and avoidable, experts say. Here is what we can learn from the Halloween crowd crush in Seoul
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A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
It's never one thing in any large incident, accident or disaster. The swiss cheese model is a fairly key way of thinking about these things. You need all the holes to line up. Most of the time they don't, fortunately. Tragically occasionally they do and people die.
cuppa tee
Well-Known Member
pictures of the second person to die show them in uniform with a german shepherd dog
on the night there were videos of a gsd running loose in the foyer on twitter
if the handler was badly injured the dog might've escaped.
does anyone know if its normal for dogs to be working at music venues...?
sniffer dogs tend to be spaniels rather than gsd's.
on the night there were videos of a gsd running loose in the foyer on twitter
if the handler was badly injured the dog might've escaped.
does anyone know if its normal for dogs to be working at music venues...?
sniffer dogs tend to be spaniels rather than gsd's.
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CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Must be autocorrect!
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
So were there any fake tickets?
I’ve never seen any German Shepherds and I’ve been to the venue countless times, in the main auditorium, backstage bar (which isn’t backstage), dressing rooms, have helped a support act with their set up and strip down.
German Shepherds are fucking weapons. Designed to bite on command, and I’ve read that their bite is excruciating. They’re also a bit erratic. Fair enough to send them into a factory with burglars in it, but they’d rip all round them in a gig, probably scared by the noise. I’m not even sure what the legality would be of private security using them to bite people.
It’s also very unusual for a security or police dog to be off the lead like that. Looking at the video the dog doesn’t seem to have a lead and, if its handler were incapacitated, I’d expect to see the lead trailing behind.
As regards the picture of the victim, I’d imagine that she was a security professional, trained in a number of different things for different purposes and security dogs were one of them.
tonysingh
Random Clever and Witty Strapline
If she was trained in canine security work, that's all she'd be doing. That specific training, plus a dog trained similarly is going to cost a decent five figure sum with more costs ongoing. She'd also be able to command a salary commensurate with that expertise.
Sorry to be boring, it's just a mate runs a kennels breeding and training dogs exactly for this.
So maybe they were geared up for trouble on the night, which makes it more ridiculous that they can't have mitigated against this issue.
jimbarkanoodle
Well-Known Member
They always have a sniffer dog at the Academy for club nights, that go on way past gig opening hours, as they know most people will have class A drugs in their pocket. I have seen security with a range of dogs that are apparently sniffer dogs in recent years, including ones much bigger than the traditional spaniels.
This was a gig though wasnt it? Maybe even so they considered it high risk enough to have a sniffer dog at the door.
This was a gig though wasnt it? Maybe even so they considered it high risk enough to have a sniffer dog at the door.
nick
Pleomorphic Adenomas R us
It is a dreadful incident - condolences to all who were affected
There is a lot of speculation about cause, including fake tickets, bad behaviour bad organisation etc.
However, sometimes thing just go very very wrong, even if behaviour is good.
Here, 173 people died after a child tripped (albeit on a darkened staircase) Bethnal Green 1943
Spandex
A crazy bulbous punchbag of sound
That's a good example of having to look at the wider context to understand a disaster and treat official pronouncements with caution.
Bethnal Green Civil Defence got some new anti-aircraft rockets, so they went down to Victoria Park too try them out. The explosions, with no air-raid sirens, no warning, caused people to rush to the tube station for shelter. Someone tripped, people continued moving into the station and 173 people were killed in the crush.
At first it was hushed up. A secret report concluded it had been caused by a panic. A subsequent investigation claimed there had been no panic. Another secret report found that the Civil Defence had been warned of the need for barriers as early as 1941 but they weren't used due to cost. In retrospect, it was avoidable.
My grandad was one of the Civil Defence people at Victoria Park firing the rockets.
pinkmonkey
2.4 hour party person
I wen to a drum n bass gig at the Drumsheds in Tottenham, the drugs sniffer dog was a German Shepherd.
cuppa tee
Well-Known Member
....should be pointed out that the cops and others will also use the gsd's close relative the belgian shepherd dog as well.
only putting this forward as the dog in question was presumed to be a police animal on the night.
also i have read that the worst injuries were inflicted in the foyer area where the loose dog was filmed rather than the main arena.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
He. The Met misgendered him.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
...
jimbarkanoodle
Well-Known Member
2 people are dead because people like that woman tried to force their way into the venue, the Police showing force back should not be questioned in this instance. Those people on twitter are wasting their time.
jimbarkanoodle
Well-Known Member
I get the feeling that a lot of these (security/non Police) 'sniffer dogs' are nothing of the sort, and are there to make people shit themselves and use the amnesty boxes, or give up their stash when the dog handler says the 'dog has sniffed you'.
While you might have made up your mind what happened here, it's far from uncontested. Plus it's fine to question police violence whatever.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Good luck with that…
tonysingh
Random Clever and Witty Strapline
Absolutely part of their job is to intimidate.
What's that fucking voiceover as well?
Fuck knows what that video is about. The police could be trying to keep space so paramedics can work on some critically ill / dying people. The woman trying to gain access might be trying to get to a critically ill / dying friend. The whole things seems so fucked that I no longer know who is wrong or right.
All I know is that such a video boils my piss and the person who has put it up should be arrested for malicious communications.
pinkmonkey
2.4 hour party person
Oh this one was as my friend unfortunately found out. We had to file past it.
jimbarkanoodle
Well-Known Member
You can never tell though, unless its a Police dog (and even they give plenty of false positives), i think they just pull over whoever looks a bit shifty and use the dog as an excuse.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
I wasn't aware that there was a difference in the licensing standards for police and private passive detection dogs? Everyday's a school day.
Most of them are trained with tennis balls as a toy though, so tennis coaches do tend to get pulled a lot on the underground. Apparently..
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