Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
I don't think many people will get a licence to put on a drill night.
Fatalities and critical injuries at Asake concert crush at the Brixton Academy
- Thread starter DietCokeGirl
- Start date
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Printworks at Canada Water has closed down - for a massive site redevelopment.
The customer care approach sounds to have been wildly different from the Brixton Academy
Printworks had 600 members of staff – not just because of the size of the venue.
“It’s because the community made it clear that after a show on a Saturday, they wanted to make sure the streets were cleaned straightaway,” he said.
“They also wanted free access to the shows. So in the last six years, we’ve given away 13,000 tickets for free to them.”
“You can’t just plonk culture into an area and start making a profit without seeking permission.
“Because it’s gone so well, we don’t really get many complaints. So it’s most important to me to get their views.
The customer care approach sounds to have been wildly different from the Brixton Academy
Printworks had 600 members of staff – not just because of the size of the venue.
“It’s because the community made it clear that after a show on a Saturday, they wanted to make sure the streets were cleaned straightaway,” he said.
“They also wanted free access to the shows. So in the last six years, we’ve given away 13,000 tickets for free to them.”
“You can’t just plonk culture into an area and start making a profit without seeking permission.
“Because it’s gone so well, we don’t really get many complaints. So it’s most important to me to get their views.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Read the guardian article.
What comes across is,
1) Met use of informal unrecorded pressure on venues. For example phone calls rather than email or recorded meetings.
2) The Met take it upon themselves to make in effect licensing decisions. The Local Authority are sidelined and absent seemingly from the discussions. They feature no where in guardian article.
3) Met act like it's up to them if a venue has a license or not.
Worth pointing out that Printworks only happened because there was proposed development and they allowed it on the understanding it would be temporary. The backlash against it’s closing seems to misunderstand it and means that in the future developers could be less likely to allow these temporary uses.Printworks at Canada Water has closed down - for a massive site redevelopment.
The customer care approach sounds to have been wildly different from the Brixton Academy
Printworks had 600 members of staff – not just because of the size of the venue.
“It’s because the community made it clear that after a show on a Saturday, they wanted to make sure the streets were cleaned straightaway,” he said.
“They also wanted free access to the shows. So in the last six years, we’ve given away 13,000 tickets for free to them.”
“You can’t just plonk culture into an area and start making a profit without seeking permission.
“Because it’s gone so well, we don’t really get many complaints. So it’s most important to me to get their views.
But yes, it seems to have been run very well and I believe there will be a permanent space in the new development for it.
cuppa tee
Well-Known Member
i was going only by recent appearances in brixton of high profile reaggae artists...and this week we learn the twinkle brothers are appearing at lambeth country show, smaller reggae events are happening at local venues including hootenanny and the ritzy. my memories of the 414 incident are blurry too but it recently came up on a discussion of an upcoming reggae night at a local venue.... Brixton food & drink news: new restaurants, bars, pop ups, cafes and more
felonius monk
Well-Known Member
More explanation as to why the Met want to close it. Apparently AMG were not cooperating in their enquiries. Police explain Academy licence stance
sparkybird
ask the bird...
Thanks, that's an interesting read.
editor
hiraethified
Before my Brixton Fightback gig at the Electric, I was told that the police had rung the venue several times trying to pressure them into cancelling it, insisting that people would come out from the gig and start rioting. Fucking idiots.
Brixton Academy: Fans asked to help save venue after concert crush deaths
A campaign has begun to stop the permanent closure of Brixton Academy after a fatal crush.
www.bbc.co.uk
What's the source?
This piece by Clash Music says "The Met Police believes the venue should have its license permanently withdrawn". New Campaign Launches To Save O2 Academy Brixton | News | Clash Magazine Music News, Reviews & Interviews There's also another petition, this time from the Night Time Industries Association. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all this seems to me just a widespread misinterpretation of the Met's position. The Met doesn't want AMG to have a licence for the venue, but they're not saying that nobody else should have a licence or that there's any fundamental reason why the venue can't be used for gigs. Seems to me that the petitions are irrelevant and misleading.
Here's the source of the Met's remarks. It's nothing new, it's just an extract of the 17th April application to review the licence. https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/de...view of Premises Licence - Revised online.pdf
The key phrase is "the MPS has lost confidence in the Premises Licence Holder".
So...did the corruption of the security staff have anything to do with the crowd forcing the doors, and/or the crush in the foyer which killed people? Maybe there's a connection if lots of security were away from their posts in front of the building because they were busy letting people in round the back or taking people to cashpoints or whatever. The police statement doesn't have any detail about the management of the crowd outside the building. It just says "staff and security had completely lost control of the situation".
jimbarkanoodle
Well-Known Member
They've probably been doing it for years, there's a sold out gig, people approach the door asking if there is spare tickets, they are sent over to the bouncers mate and give them money. They are let in with some sort of sign. I'm not sure many doorstaff actually leave their post. Could be wrong though.
i know they do this at at least one other brixton venue
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
The police statement appears to be saying the problem to be addressed is due to design of foyer of the building. And main stumbling block is that they consider the license holder are not addressing this.
If that is the case any new license holder who take over Academy will have the same problem to address.
Kind of makes me wonder if Met are making this old converted cinema difficult to use a large scale music venue
If license is revoked on this basis it sets a precedent in any future use of Academy.
I note Met do not actually say what they think the solution is.
Met emphasis now that the "structural integrity of thr doors" is an issue and that what happened in Foyer is just as relevant.
So Met are not concentrating on what happened outside or allegations of security staff letting people in without proper tickets a basis for revoking the license.
It could be that the Met are over emphasising this. A lot of London venues are in old converted buildings
If that is the case any new license holder who take over Academy will have the same problem to address.
Kind of makes me wonder if Met are making this old converted cinema difficult to use a large scale music venue
If license is revoked on this basis it sets a precedent in any future use of Academy.
I note Met do not actually say what they think the solution is.
Met emphasis now that the "structural integrity of thr doors" is an issue and that what happened in Foyer is just as relevant.
So Met are not concentrating on what happened outside or allegations of security staff letting people in without proper tickets a basis for revoking the license.
It could be that the Met are over emphasising this. A lot of London venues are in old converted buildings
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felonius monk
Well-Known Member
Because of the original design and that the entry point is on a corner the Academy does have a pinch point around the foyer doors. Most people would only notice this after a concert when the crowd has to funnel out. The Eventim Apollo (an ex-cinema) has a large frontage and doesn't have this issue. Redesigning the entrance could be a challenge though as the Academy is a Grade 2 listed building.
You have been to a concert at the academy?
And slowly filed out through the foyer?
It was never safe. Especially with the side bars also going into the foyer?
Or you could say Met a lot like it makes you sound clever.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
TfL could close the road on gig nights. It would mean diversions for buses, but I’m sure it is doable.
nick
Pleomorphic Adenomas R us
Much as I want the academy reopened: I really can't see tfl feeling the desire to close a major road on many nights per week.
Even if they did, I can't see them doing it without a ruinous recharge to the venue for the cost of re-routing etc etc
Enjoying how light you are making of the potential for people to be crushed to death.
I’m sure you will be there when it reopens ready to be thankful that no one is panicking and trying to get out faster as you enter a tiny bar area on the way out with no where to go except an already full foyer if people are pushing from the far bigger space inside.
If people read the application for licence review I think they will see that the road and the foyer size/design are red herrings https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/de...view of Premises Licence - Revised online.pdf If the foyer was unsafe, this would have been flagged many years ago, and people would have been crushed at earlier gigs.
The Met and AMG agree that the crush in the foyer happened because too many doors were open at the same time. This occurred because the crowd pushed locked doors open. AMG has not addressed the question of why these doors were so weak. But the Met says they warned AMG about the "structural integrity" of the doors at a meeting in Feb 2020. At first AMG said there had not been any such warning. But they had to backtrack when contemporaneous notes of the meeting were produced. If the doors had been replaced with stronger ones, there wouldn't have been a crush and nobody would have died. We are being told that it really is that simple.
The Met wants to put all the blame for the crappy doors on to AMG. They don't seem to be blaming the crowd or the security staff or the design of the building. But it could be argued that if the doors were such a hazard, the Met should have made new doors a condition of the licence years ago. But they didn't. Nothing was put in writing. The warning about the doors was verbal.
The Met and AMG agree that the crush in the foyer happened because too many doors were open at the same time. This occurred because the crowd pushed locked doors open. AMG has not addressed the question of why these doors were so weak. But the Met says they warned AMG about the "structural integrity" of the doors at a meeting in Feb 2020. At first AMG said there had not been any such warning. But they had to backtrack when contemporaneous notes of the meeting were produced. If the doors had been replaced with stronger ones, there wouldn't have been a crush and nobody would have died. We are being told that it really is that simple.
The Met wants to put all the blame for the crappy doors on to AMG. They don't seem to be blaming the crowd or the security staff or the design of the building. But it could be argued that if the doors were such a hazard, the Met should have made new doors a condition of the licence years ago. But they didn't. Nothing was put in writing. The warning about the doors was verbal.
Good knowledge. Shame as the design of the building is definitely unsafe.
jimbarkanoodle
Well-Known Member
In some ways i suppose this could be considered a perk of the job. Venues can always squeeze in a few more people, even if the fire safety certificate says otherwise. The fact "staff and security had completely lost control of the situation" probably lies with the behaviour of those in the crowd forcing their way past the door staff, pre SIA days the bouncers would have taken care of the situation and held the line, albeit with plenty of violence meted out. The tragic consequence of this of course we know, not helped by the design of the building.
Masses of places feel unsafe when you're jammed into a crowd, unable to move. If you wanted to stop it happening you'd need to control all sorts of gatherings, including rush hour tube travel.
They monitor the rush hour traffic and close platforms and hold people in stations to prevent crushing.
Its not about feeling unsafe but about places that are unsafe.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
Not reasonably, surely.
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beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
I’m not really sure why some people seem so keen to blame a single factor.
The building design isn’t ideal.
Security were letting non ticket holders in
Sections of the crowd were idiots
AMG seem to have ignored previous warnings
Each in isolation would likely not have resulted in what happened, it all just came together in a tragic perfect storm.
The building design isn’t ideal.
Security were letting non ticket holders in
Sections of the crowd were idiots
AMG seem to have ignored previous warnings
Each in isolation would likely not have resulted in what happened, it all just came together in a tragic perfect storm.
People weren’t blaming factors were they?
Just pointing out what is needed to be safe.
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