Fatalities and critical injuries at Asake concert crush at the Brixton Academy

[Gramsci]

Lot of conjecture here.

As yet do not know the reasons Met say license should be taken away rather than the existing license holders make changes and retain license.

Ive seen a few licence committee meetings and the Met would need to come up with reasons and not just say they want it taken away.

Ive not looked to see if the papers for it are on Lambeth website.

Licensing committee will and should listen to the arguments of both sides. Not just take the line that if the Met say something it must be right.

Especially at this time.

And technically its not Lambeth Council in sense of the Labour group. The Licensing committee is ( in theory) not whipped. The Cllrs on it are there as individuals elected by locals. Quasi Judicial is the term. It is meant to be independent of party politics.


If the view is that good the Met are taking it away then what is the point of having a licensing committee of elected representatives?

 

[Leighsw2]

Those of us who remember the Licensing Committee hearings into Fire (in Vauxhall) - similar situation following a number of deaths connected to the venue - will recall that the Committee did not accept the Met's application to revoke. So it's not a done deal. AMG are a big company and will fight tooth and nail to keep their licence.

 

[DJWrongspeed]

Does seems a bit nuts to close. Wouldn't it better for the police, council & AMG to reopen with a 3 month , 6 month review.
Then you could more concretely monitor events and conclude "we've lost confidence" or carry on.

 

[Gramsci]

All posts above are fair enough.

My issue is with the Met and it's influence on local politics. In regarda to planning and licensing.

Particularly on planning Met archectural views take precedence over Joe public. Considering the level of Met that is now annoying me.

Imo an organisation that has just been proven to be bigoted has to much influence.

It's a self serving bigotted organisation that should no longer carry more weight when considering licensing and planning than Joe public and local business.

I'm really hoping local Lambeth Labour Cllrs will stop just saying they have so called good relations with police and actually question Met interventions into planning and licensing applications

On planning and its now almost built into the process.

 

[editor]

I bet there's some really fucking hideous super-exploitative churches who have the cash ready to throw down to take over the Academy if it all goes tits up

 

[edcraw]

I bet there's some really fucking hideous super-exploitative churches who have the cash ready to throw down to take over the Academy if it all goes tits up

Really don’t see that happening - only seems to be venues that haven’t been viable that do that.

Never much of a defender of the police but don’t see much to defend the venue owners over tbh. It’s been badly run for ages with seemingly no investment. New owners would probably be a good thing.

 

[DaphneM]

Really don’t see that happening - only seems to be venues that haven’t been viable that do that.

Never much of a defender of the police but don’t see much to defend the venue owners over tbh. It’s been badly run for ages with seemingly no investment. New owners would probably be a good thing.

Yeah, I dont think Academy Music Group is anything to cry over tbh

 

[teuchter]

If the Met have lost confidence in "the operator" why is it only their Brixton venue they want the license revoked for?

 

[TopCat]

I bet there's some really fucking hideous super-exploitative churches who have the cash ready to throw down to take over the Academy if it all goes tits up

They usually offer to move in for nothing, no rent. No business rates are then due to the owners.

 

[TopCat]

It’s an attractive venue. I doubt it will be closed for long/good.

 

[edcraw]

If the Met have lost confidence in "the operator" why is it only their Brixton venue they want the license revoked for?

That’s a v good point.

 

[felonius monk]

That’s a v good point.

Maybe it's because the Brixton Academy is more difficult to manage from a safety point of view compared to the rest of their venues which are rather smaller (eg Shepherd's Bush Empire, O2 Islington, Forum in London). Or the history of events there. I don't agree with it- I think the venue should be put on probation with strict monitoring as DJWrongspeed suggests above.

 

[jimbarkanoodle]

I'm no fan of AMG, but i don't think it has been badly run. Putting on shows almost every day of the week, for years, for thousands of people relatively unblemished should not be ignored because one night hundreds of people rushed the doors and overpowered security. Im sure the venue was much, much more dodgy in the 90s.

I suspect the Police cant be arsed to deal with any problems that arise or they want the venue to restrict or even ban events with similar music/crowd to the night in question, and AMG disagree.

I would have thought a change of security team and some additional barrier arrangements would have been put in place and the venue would reopen again, but if it comes to a new operator taking it over then so be it i suppose.

 

[gosub]

Sign the Petition

Save Brixton Academy

www.change.org

 

[nick h.]

I'm no fan of AMG, but i don't think it has been badly run. Putting on shows almost every day of the week, for years, for thousands of people relatively unblemished should not be ignored because one night hundreds of people rushed the doors and overpowered security. Im sure the venue was much, much more dodgy in the 90s.

I suspect the Police cant be arsed to deal with any problems that arise or they want the venue to restrict or even ban events with similar music/crowd to the night in question, and AMG disagree.

I would have thought a change of security team and some additional barrier arrangements would have been put in place and the venue would reopen again, but if it comes to a new operator taking it over then so be it i suppose.

This seems a very reasonable summary. But legally it's quite complicated, with AMG making one application to the licensing committee, the Met making another, plus the criminal investigation by the police. There's also an investigation by the SIA (the government's regulator of bouncers.) Presumably the police already have a firm opinion on whodunit, but I suppose they can't name names at the committee hearings because it would prejudice the criminal investigation? Obviously IANAL. Would anyone like to pile in with some legal eagle cleverness?

The Academy was a major item at the 16th Jan committee meeting. Minutes here: Agenda item - O2 Academy Brixton, 211 Stockwell Road London SW9 9SL (Brixton North) | Lambeth Council Would anyone like to read them? I won't, because my ME/CFS is fucking terrible at the moment.

The next meeting of the committee is on May 15th, 7pm at the town hall, but the agenda's not been published. Browse meetings - Licensing Sub-Committee | Lambeth Council If the Academy is on the agenda it'll be free entertainment, as both sides have retained a barrister. I hope local press will report it. Maybe AMG will stir things up by listing some of the shortcomings of the police. Maybe they'll say they responded inadequately on the night, and they've been trying to shift the blame by leaking stories about bad apples in the security team?

I very much doubt the police will say anything tendentious about the lawlessness of people who attend the relevant music genre, but you never know. Presumably they've done that forcefully and successfully in the past by effectively banning reggae concerts from the area, on the grounds that the audience tends to include armed persons with scores to settle. (Ref the shooting at the 414 ten years ago.)

 

[Gramsci]

This seems a very reasonable summary. But legally it's quite complicated, with AMG making one application to the licensing committee, the Met making another, plus the criminal investigation by the police. There's also an investigation by the SIA (the government's regulator of bouncers.) Presumably the police already have a firm opinion on whodunit, but I suppose they can't name names at the committee hearings because it would prejudice the criminal investigation? Obviously IANAL. Would anyone like to pile in with some legal eagle cleverness?

The Academy was a major item at the 16th Jan committee meeting. Minutes here: Agenda item - O2 Academy Brixton, 211 Stockwell Road London SW9 9SL (Brixton North) | Lambeth Council Would anyone like to read them? I won't, because my ME/CFS is fucking terrible at the moment.

The next meeting of the committee is on May 15th, 7pm at the town hall, but the agenda's not been published. Browse meetings - Licensing Sub-Committee | Lambeth Council If the Academy is on the agenda it'll be free entertainment, as both sides have retained a barrister. I hope local press will report it. Maybe AMG will stir things up by listing some of the shortcomings of the police. Maybe they'll say they responded inadequately on the night, and they've been trying to shift the blame by leaking stories about bad apples in the security team?

I very much doubt the police will say anything tendentious about the lawlessness of people who attend the relevant music genre, but you never know. Presumably they've done that forcefully and successfully in the past by effectively banning reggae concerts from the area, on the grounds that the audience tends to include armed persons with scores to settle. (Ref the shooting at the 414 ten years ago.)

Minutes basically say licence is suspended until more is known about what went wrong and new conditions for license to put put back in place can be set out.

Minutes emphasis that it is licensing committee not the Met who make the final decisions.

Did notice this.

today’s main review hearing, convened under the provisions of section 53C of the 2003 Act, a number of statements and documents, have been placed before the sub-committee by the police and licence holder. All have been carefully considered by the licensing sub-committee made up of Cllr Fred Cowell (Chair), Cllr Linda Bray, and Cllr Timothy Windle. Some of these documents provide details of the incident on 15 December 2022. Other documents relate to earlier concerns about crowd control at the venue, in particular, but not limited to, an event held on 2 February 2020 and steps taken after that incident. Some of this information is of a sensitive nature such that its disclosure in public may prejudice the ongoing investigations into the inciden

Looks to me that the Met are throwing everything at the venue operators. Including anything they have from previous years.

However Joe Public will not be seeing any of this to make up their own minds as under its powers its with held from public

 

[Gramsci]

This letter shows the Lambeth the licensing authority have been unable to further there work due to the police investigation. The Met have told Council that it is not possible.

Not sure what to make of this.

Looks like Lambeth Licensing officers are trying to do their job so a report can be put into a Licensing Committee and are unable to do this as Met has said no information is to be passed on

And what is a "full coordination meeting"?

Met and Lambeth Licensing have different roles and responsibilities here. Is a Full Coordination a Police led one?

In summary, the Responsible Licensing Authority has not had an opportunity to conduct a
review of licensing conditions in relation to this matter as the venue’s management team
repeatedly outlined that they were not in a position to respond requests to demonstrate
compliance in relation to the venue’s licence conditions.
On the 4th January 2023, the Council received an e-mail from the Police investigation’s
Strategic Lead Officer, who stated that all requests for information in relation to the incident
from various parties are “paused” until a full coordination meeting can be established;
therefore, there has not been an opportunity for the Licensing Authority to explore what had
actually happened on in relation to the incident that took place on the 15th December 2022.

 

[nick h.]

However Joe Public will not be seeing any of this to make up their own minds as under its powers its with held from public

Does that mean we can't attend the committee meeting?

 

[nick h.]

They had assessed the event as "high risk [level5}. Mentioned in this article

O2 Brixton Academy: Crush victim’s family call for answers

A man whose sister died after a crush outside a gig in December says her family want answers and justice.

www.bbc.co.uk

Does anyone know how the risk level is assessed? Is 5 the worst/highest? Do they make assumptions about the likely age and behaviour of the audience, or how much drink/drugs they'll consume, or whether gang members will attend?

 

[Tricky Skills]

We covered the February review meeting in detail on Buzz.

The next Licensing meeting is likely to be held online in the public domain. Parts of it might move to exclude the press and public, should the Met discuss the ongoing crime investigation.

 

[cuppa tee]

Presumably they've done that forcefully and successfully in the past by effectively banning reggae concerts from the area, on the grounds that the audience tends to include armed persons with scores to settle. (Ref the shooting at the 414 ten years ago.)

dont think theres any ban on reggae events in the area.....thats ridiculous.

 

[TopCat]

dont think theres any ban on reggae events in the area.....thats ridiculous.

Just bashment, grime, two step

 

[editor]

Online petition passes 53,000 signatories (for what it's worth)

Petition to save the Brixton O2 Academy surpasses 53,000 signatures in a week

With the Brixton O2 Academy facing indefinite closure after the Met Police announced that it had lost confidence in the venue’s operator, a petition was posted online urging for a swift reopening …

www.brixtonbuzz.com

 

[happyshopper]

It’s clear that the O2 management have a case to answer. People died. And Lambeth have a responsibility to consider any decision carefully. So how correct is it to state that the O2 faces “indefinite closure “, except to the extent needed to ensure that such unfortunate events don’t get repeated?

 

[edcraw]

It’s clear that the O2 management have a case to answer. People died. And Lambeth have a responsibility to consider any decision carefully. So how correct is it to state that the O2 faces “indefinite closure “, except to the extent needed to ensure that such unfortunate events don’t get repeated?

I guess the petition shows Lambeth strength of opinion, but I’d be surprised if they weren’t aware, and puts pressure on them to find a way.

But it’s pretty poorly worded and saying it’ll be turned into flats is weird.

 

[felonius monk]

I guess the petition shows Lambeth strength of opinion, but I’d be surprised if they weren’t aware, and puts pressure on them to find a way.

But it’s pretty poorly worded and saying it’ll be turned into flats is weird.

That's what happened to the Brixton Empress theatre later the Granada Bingo hall in Brighton Terrace. Either than or a Brazilian Evangelical Church (as happened to the Rainbow). I don't think it'll come to that though.

 

[editor]

It’s clear that the O2 management have a case to answer. People died. And Lambeth have a responsibility to consider any decision carefully. So how correct is it to state that the O2 faces “indefinite closure “, except to the extent needed to ensure that such unfortunate events don’t get repeated?

It's indefinite in the sense that there's no scheduled end to the closure. It's already been closed for five months and the Met Police has recently declared that it has no confidence in the current operator.

 

[nick h.]

how correct is it to state that the O2 faces “indefinite closure “, except to the extent needed to ensure that such unfortunate events don’t get repeated?

Nobody's saying the 02 can't be a safe, profitable venue. But the closure is indefinite because nobody knows how long it will take for AMG to get a licence. Back in January the police said there was a strong possibility of criminal charges Inquest into deaths at Brixton O2 could lead to criminal charges, court hears. If they suspect people who work at the 02 maybe they'll oppose a licence unless AMG makes staff changes?

 

[cuppa tee]

Just bashment, grime, two step

apparently not....

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[nick h.]

dont think theres any ban on reggae events in the area.....thats ridiculous.

My memory's a bit hazy. Editor is the one to ask. It's in the context of this risk assessment policy ‘They’re doing this by stealth’: how the Met police continues to target Black music Maybe the Met likes to argue that Reggae attracts Yardies? ISTR that at the time of the shooting (2013), Reggae was on the Met's list of high risk genres. Meaning that it was pretty much impossible to put on a reggae gig. But the 414 put one on. It was supposed to be a private party, not advertised to the general public. So maybe the party organiser (which wasn't the 414 owners) didn't see the need for police vetting? Anyway, someone with a gun showed up and shot a guy in the stomach.