Fatalities and critical injuries at Asake concert crush at the Brixton Academy

[A380]

I’m not really sure why some people seem so keen to blame a single factor.

The building design isn’t ideal.
Security were letting non ticket holders in
Sections of the crowd were idiots
AMG seem to have ignored previous warnings

Each in isolation would likely not have resulted in what happened, it all just came together in a tragic perfect storm.

Crowd incidents/ disasters are always a result of several factors together. Like almost all ‘Accidental’ deaths really, it’s the ‘Swiss cheese model’.

It’s also why it’s despicable or naive to the extreme to say things like ‘it’s ok for me and my mates to sneak in to a capacity event, because nothing happened before’. By doing it you just lined up another ‘hole in the cheese’ and put other people at risk of death or injury.

 

[Gramsci]

I’m not really sure why some people seem so keen to blame a single factor.

The building design isn’t ideal.
Security were letting non ticket holders in
Sections of the crowd were idiots
AMG seem to have ignored previous warnings

Each in isolation would likely not have resulted in what happened, it all just came together in a tragic perfect storm.

Which people do you mean?

 

[nick h.]

I’m not really sure why some people seem so keen to blame a single factor.

The building design isn’t ideal.
Security were letting non ticket holders in
Sections of the crowd were idiots
AMG seem to have ignored previous warnings

Each in isolation would likely not have resulted in what happened, it all just came together in a tragic perfect storm.

Because the first three have been factors at hundreds of gigs at which nobody died. The fourth is the one which triggered the fatal crush.

The fourth is also the key to AMG's battle to keep the licence, and perhaps also the key to the Academy eventually reopening, possibly under new management.

If you want to argue that one and three are more deadly, you're halfway to saying the venue should close permanently.

 

[Gramsci]

If people read the application for licence review I think they will see that the road and the foyer size/design are red herrings https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2023-05/O2 Academy - Application Review of Premises Licence - Revised online.pdf If the foyer was unsafe, this would have been flagged many years ago, and people would have been crushed at earlier gigs.

The Met and AMG agree that the crush in the foyer happened because too many doors were open at the same time. This occurred because the crowd pushed locked doors open. AMG has not addressed the question of why these doors were so weak. But the Met says they warned AMG about the "structural integrity" of the doors at a meeting in Feb 2020. At first AMG said there had not been any such warning. But they had to backtrack when contemporaneous notes of the meeting were produced. If the doors had been replaced with stronger ones, there wouldn't have been a crush and nobody would have died. We are being told that it really is that simple.

The Met wants to put all the blame for the crappy doors on to AMG. They don't seem to be blaming the crowd or the security staff or the design of the building. But it could be argued that if the doors were such a hazard, the Met should have made new doors a condition of the licence years ago. But they didn't. Nothing was put in writing. The warning about the doors was verbal.

Had another look at what Met say.

Can't cut and paste

Met seem to be saying that AMG are offering to review crowd control outside the venue. To stop crowd forcing doors open in future

Then in Met submission Met say this is not addressing what happened in foyer.

So it can read as Met saying the front doors aren't the only issue.

 

[A380]

Had another look at what Met say.

Can't cut and paste

Met seem to be saying that AMG are offering to review crowd control outside the venue. To stop crowd forcing doors open in future

Then in Met submission Met say this is not addressing what happened in foyer.

So it can read as Met saying the front doors aren't the only issue.

Because there won’t only be one issue.

 

[nick h.]

Had another look at what Met say.

Can't cut and paste

Met seem to be saying that AMG are offering to review crowd control outside the venue. To stop crowd forcing doors open in future

Then in Met submission Met say this is not addressing what happened in foyer.

So it can read as Met saying the front doors aren't the only issue.

That's very clear.

 

[Christian Burt]

I’ve been to the Brixton Academy many times. It’s arguably my favourite venue.

However, there’s no way I’d be rushing to sign any petition to reopen until it’s absolutely fundamentally clear that the venue is safe for attendees.

Often it’s been a mare to get out that venue and the bottlenecks; if a seasoned gig goer like myself you sort of ‘know what to do’ to be safe. But that shouldn’t be the bar for safety.

Never be in a rush to condemn a single factor or the attendees either - do we learn nothing from past tragedies.

Ideally I’d like the Brixton Academy to reopen and be a safe environment / let’s hope the AMG manage to do that.

 

[edcraw]

Petition for an enquiry into the fatal crush.

 

[A380]

Petition for an enquiry into the fatal crush.

Would this be as well as the inquest? And the HSA investigation and any criminal trial? And the coroner’s Regulation 28 report? Would it be judge led or under the auspices of the mayor?

 

[edcraw]

Would this be as well as the inquest? And the HSA investigation and any criminal trial? And the coroner’s Regulation 28 report? Would it be judge led or under the auspices of the mayor?

Sounds like it. Think the poster is right to make the wider point about the narrative around this as well at the general reaction and the other petition.

Can’t help but think the reaction would have been very different if it had been a largely white audience.

 

[edcraw]

They’ve written a piece here.

The Brixton crush and its aftermath are steeped in anti-Blackness - only community justice will do

In a guest article for the Canary, lawyer Ife Thompson argues that only a public inquiry into the Brixton crush will suffice

www.thecanary.co

 

[nick h.]

They’ve written a piece here.

The Brixton crush and its aftermath are steeped in anti-Blackness - only community justice will do

In a guest article for the Canary, lawyer Ife Thompson argues that only a public inquiry into the Brixton crush will suffice

www.thecanary.co

The article has this timeline:

When did the fatal crushing occur? Was it just after the doors were forced open? I've read that all the people who got into the gig had to exit through the lobby. Maybe the crush was even worse at that point?

This video shows the moment the doors were forced. The police said the doors were weak in 2020. So why didn't they put barriers right in front of them? By failing to prevent the breach of the doors, weren't the police more to blame for the crush than AMG? And with the benefit of hindsight, aren't the police and the licensing committee the real villains, for allowing the Academy to be licensed with those doors? They don't even have bars or a grille.


After that, the crowd enters through all the doors, with no police or security in sight:


In principle a public enquiry sounds better than the Met investigating itself. But in practice it probably wouldn't issue a report this decade. Looks like the Met's criminal investigation will take 1 year or more, what with scores or even hundreds of witnesses and videos to get through. After that the inquest resumes. That could take another year. And someone might ask the IPCC to investigate the Met. Add yet another year. Maybe after that there'd be an opportunity to make a credible request to the home secretary for a public enquiry?

 

[edcraw]

Not a good sign for the venue that Suede are cancelling their December dates.

 

[BristolEcho]

The article has this timeline:

When did the fatal crushing occur? Was it just after the doors were forced open? I've read that all the people who got into the gig had to exit through the lobby. Maybe the crush was even worse at that point?

This video shows the moment the doors were forced. The police said the doors were weak in 2020. So why didn't they put barriers right in front of them? By failing to prevent the breach of the doors, weren't the police more to blame for the crush than AMG? And with the benefit of hindsight, aren't the police and the licensing committee the real villains, for allowing the Academy to be licensed with those doors? They don't even have bars or a grille.


After that, the crowd enters through all the doors, with no police or security in sight:


In principle a public enquiry sounds better than the Met investigating itself. But in practice it probably wouldn't issue a report this decade. Looks like the Met's criminal investigation will take 1 year or more, what with scores or even hundreds of witnesses and videos to get through. After that the inquest resumes. That could take another year. And someone might ask the IPCC to investigate the Met. Add yet another year. Maybe after that there'd be an opportunity to make a credible request to the home secretary for a public enquiry?

Just reading that thread makes me feel sick. Those poor people. I've been in a few tight situations and every time I hear about crushes it makes me angry and also shudder.

 

[nick h.]

Not a good sign for the venue that Suede are cancelling their December dates.

Not a lawyer and just speculating....but imo there's no chance of the venue being licensed this year. Not unless the owner proposes new doors and new managers and new security staff and more supervision. But they can't do that because it would be halfway to admitting liability. They are sitting on their hands hoping the police will identify the people who broke the doors and charge them. They're also waiting to see if their staff are charged. But the police won't get to this point until 2024. So the owner just has to budget for no revenue this year, or sell the building.

 

[organicpanda]

speaking to one of the cafe owners in the market, they were saying the closure has made the difference between being in profit and loss and is mulling over wether it is worth continuing

 

[editor]

speaking to one of the cafe owners in the market, they were saying the closure has made the difference between being in profit and loss and is mulling over wether it is worth continuing

It's having a hugely negative impact on loads of local businesses. The Academy was a lifeline for struggling businesses, and the quicker it (safely) reopens the better.

 

[Winot]

The Face have put together a timeline with quotes here:

Brixton Academy crush: “It’s the last thing you expect”

Seven months on from the terrible events at Asake’s show in South London, survivors are still picking up the pieces. Drawn from exhaustive research and eye-witness testimony, here’s a timeline of what happened that night.

theface.com

 

[editor]

The Face have put together a timeline with quotes here:

Brixton Academy crush: “It’s the last thing you expect”

Seven months on from the terrible events at Asake’s show in South London, survivors are still picking up the pieces. Drawn from exhaustive research and eye-witness testimony, here’s a timeline of what happened that night.

theface.com

It sounds absolutely terrifying.

 

[jimbarkanoodle]

The Face have put together a timeline with quotes here:

Brixton Academy crush: “It’s the last thing you expect”

Seven months on from the terrible events at Asake’s show in South London, survivors are still picking up the pieces. Drawn from exhaustive research and eye-witness testimony, here’s a timeline of what happened that night.

theface.com

Interesting article. My overall take on it is that people refused to listen to security guards and Police, got rowdy and started forcing entry. I hope those responsible are thoroughly ashamed of themselves for helping to cause the death of 2 people and a major venue to loose its license. My sympathies to those who behaved like decent people and got caught up in the horrible mess.

 

[edcraw]

Interesting article. My overall take on it is that people refused to listen to security guards and Police, got rowdy and started forcing entry. I hope those responsible are thoroughly ashamed of themselves for helping to cause the death of 2 people and a major venue to loose its license. My sympathies to those who behaved like decent people and got caught up in the horrible mess.

No - those responsible are the people running the venue. If you have people with tickets that can’t get in because the venue’s already at capacity of course there’s going to be chaos especially without adequate crowd control.

It’s like blaming Liverpool fans for Hillsborough. A horrible take.

 

[nagapie]

Interesting article. My overall take on it is that people refused to listen to security guards and Police, got rowdy and started forcing entry. I hope those responsible are thoroughly ashamed of themselves for helping to cause the death of 2 people and a major venue to loose its license. My sympathies to those who behaved like decent people and got caught up in the horrible mess.

That is not what this shows at all. It shows a catalogue of mismanagement from the organisation of the whole event to the events on the door. God knows how you got that from this tragic illustration.

 

[A380]

Again There won't be one cause and there won't be one person or group of people to blame. A number of things will have gone wrong, the absence of any one of which could have stopped this; this include lots of behaviours of organisers, security staff, emergency services, licensing authorities, ticket forgers, promoters, and audience and would be audience members.

 

[edcraw]

Again There won't be one cause and there won't be one person or group of people to blame. A number of things will have gone wrong, the absence of any one of which could have stopped this; this include lots of behaviours of organisers, security staff, emergency services, licensing authorities, ticket forgers, promoters, and audience and would be audience members.

But it’s up to the venue to control most of these things. How did the venue get to capacity with so many with tickets still outside and being told they should just go away?

And honestly very little point in looking to blame any audience members - crowds act in very strange ways and individuals have very little control.

 

[A380]

But it’s up to the venue to control most of these things. How did the venue get to capacity with so many with tickets still outside and being told they should just go away?

And honestly very little point in looking to blame any audience members - crowds act in very strange ways and individuals have very little control.

If it makes you happier to hold such a black and white view of the world then crack on.

Your statement crowd dynamics seems based very much on science that was prevalent up to about the mid 1999s.

 

[edcraw]

If it makes you happier to hold such a black and white view of the world then crack on.

Your statement of the sciences of crowd dynamics seems based very much on that which was prevalent up to about the mid 1999s.

I just don’t think it’s useful to spread the blame so thinly - how do prevent the same thing happening again if you do?

Don’t know what your other comment means so please expand if you want.

 

[Tulster218]

Isioma: “We know the concert [was due to] have started, so why aren’t we being let in? I just thought to myself, if I got up to the top, it was so crowded that I would get squashed. So I stayed on the edges, at the bottom of the stairs, with a metal barrier behind me. I remember feeling really scared that if the crowd [outside] surges downstairs, that’s my back gone. They hemmed everyone in. It was tight. It was awful. And then they locked the doors, so no one was getting in.”

Of course nobody at the back of a crowd should push, but it's hard to blame people for wanting to get into a concert which they'd already paid for. It's security's job to predict this sort of thing.

But the big question left unanswered by that piece is, why were there so many people already in the venue?

Was it:
1. Fans got in without tickets; or
2. Fans got in with fake tickets; or
3. Too many tickets were sold?

Whatever the case, the venue has tough questions to answer.

 

[thebackrow]

It sounds like a massive mismatch as well - full capacity is under 5000, yet they were at capacity and there was a crowd of 1000 people outside? WTF?

 

[edcraw]

It sounds like a massive mismatch as well - full capacity is under 5000, yet they were at capacity and there was a crowd of 1000 people outside? WTF?

Good point - how is that not solely the venue’s responsibility?!

 

[thebackrow]

What puzzles me is why, given that there was a large crowd and a crush out the front, when they decided to end the gig early and tell everyone to leave they didn't open the fire exits (or, for that matter, why they don't have a 'multiple exit' system for the end of gigs generally). There must surely be a way of getting people out of the building quickly in the event of a fire. My memory of going to the cinema when I was a kid (and for many west end theatres now) is that at the end of a show you often went to the front of the space and found yourself in some side alley rather than the entire audience trying to exit from the front doors.