Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Will that stop cyclists riding like bellends?OK, so let’s have all our cities made to be like Dutch ones
Entirely unashamed anti car propaganda, and the more the better.
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
maomao
普費斯
I'm saying that people don't label videos of responsible cyclists on their commutes as 'idiot cyclists' and share them on their Whatsapp group.
And I'm saying that every example of a cyclist riding badly is immediately attributed to 'cyclists' generally whereas the same doesn't happen for bad driving. There are shitloads of bad driving videos on YouTube too.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Would you like a medal?
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
As so often you have this back to front; cycles restricted to velodromes (the clue is in the name) and cars to roads. Of course cycles can also use bridle paths so long as they slow/stop for horses. Had we adopted this sensible state of affairs this yon fella wouldn't have scratched a valuable vehicle and all this could have been avoided.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Not at all, I'm just pointing out that "omg close pass" doesn't inevitably lead to car abolitionism, and that car abolitionists are an extreme fringe of cyclists, a bit like how most reasonable left wing people aren't members of the Spartacist League of Britain
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Well, it seems to work for the Dutch. Let’s give it a go.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
When there are a large number of individual cyclists in a video (not in a group or in a race), we can use that as sample data, and there is a measurable probability that the sample statistics are good estimates of the population parameters, so when almost every rider in a given video is riding dangerously, then it's safe to assume that the vast majority of bike riders ride like bellends.
maomao
普費斯
Just to clarify, I'm not currently a cyclist. I own a bicycle but haven't ridden it this year. My dislike of private cars predates my owning a bicycle and extended through many years (a decade plus) of not owning one.
I would cycle daily with proper provision for cyclists though. The main reason I don't like cycling is the amount of agg I get from drivers when riding perfectly legally.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
I think 'not being bellends' is what stops them riding like bellends.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Did someone suggest that it does?
What I wrote about cyclists being attacked and threatened was in relation to the question of what things should be considered banter-worthy, and what part such banter might play in the continuing prevalence of such behaviour on the road.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Well yes, me too. There are lots of things I would do more of if they were safer. But banning private cars as a response is an extreme infringement of other's rights not to mention unworkable, a bit like a 6pm curfew for men would be to make the streets safer for women.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
You think wrong.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
This thread really seems to have caused some kind of red mist to descend where you respond to absolutely everything as if the person you are arguing with wants to ban all cars in all situations, and to do so in some sort of context where nothing else changes at the same time.
maomao
普費斯
YouTube videos are not a random sample.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
All of it.
maomao
普費斯
In what sense is driving a right? And even if it were it demands regulation and control because driving will always involve infringing other people's rights in some way.
maomao
普費斯
Wow. Well argued. I'll take that as an admission of defeat then.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
There are lots of people calling for a total ban on private cars, yet no one has come up with any feasible context where that could actually happen. Stuff like "everyone could cycle and use buses and live in cities" isn't something that's going to work or that anyone beyond a few nutters actually wants.
If you have a vision of being able to cycle around without ever being able to encounter a Ronnie Pickering you're going to have to come up with a process to achieve that which is capable of convincing the majority of people.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
It's a de facto right as is being able to cycle, both appropriately regulated and controlled, and neither currently outlawable in a democracy.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Why?
maomao
普費斯
You've given up arguing. You did a long time ago tbf.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Here you go, arguing against something no-one's said. Red mist again.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
If the search function here wasn't so crap I'd show you were wrong, but you'll just have to take my word for it.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
A ban on private cars in city centres - with suitable exceptions for a small number of individuals/groups - is entirely workable, and really doesn’t require much imagination.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
It's not the search function that's your problem. I've read the whole thread. No-one's said what you are imagining they have.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Pedestrian zones are nothing new. That's not what is being advocated though.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
What does that even mean?
It's a privilege that's offered to a certain portion of the population, and one which can be withdrawn. That's why you have to have a license, and that's why there are some people who by law are not allowed to drive.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Correct. What’s being advocated is the removal of all but a small number of privately owned cars from city centres, replacing them with sustainable alternatives.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
That's a frequently trotted out argument but it's wrong. Just because something is licensable doesn't mean it's not a right. For example many US states (although a declining number) require firearms licences, despite gun ownership being a right.
