teuchter
je suis teuchter
How about £3k towards an e-bike plus a year's subscription to a car share club like Zipcar.
Entirely unashamed anti car propaganda, and the more the better.
- Thread starter teuchter
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Athos
Well-Known Member
Yeah that'd be a good idea. I think there's lots of people who can't imagine being without a car (myself included), but who would find it easier than they realised with decent alternatives.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
But anyway, while certain posters are having an existential crisis prompted by the suggestion of a policy that actively encourages people to get rid of cars - I think it's worth pointing out how much these kinds of policies actually pander to the motorist. They are subsidies offered to people who have already chosen to make transport choices that are harmful to the city. There's no money offered to all the Parisians who have no car.
The equivalent is offering street muggers €2500 to not mug anyone for a bit. It's a sort of protection racket. Nonetheless I magnanimously support it.
The equivalent is offering street muggers €2500 to not mug anyone for a bit. It's a sort of protection racket. Nonetheless I magnanimously support it.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
That's hardly an obstacle is it? In real terms as compared against people's incomes the price of cars is lower than it has ever been.
And even if it wasn't then most people buying cars regard them as a necessity, Indeed governments both home and abroad are subsidising the sale of newer and thus more environnmentally friendly vehicles (especially electric)
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
Your ability to take 2 totally unrelated things and create an imaginary connection between them is really impressive.
maomao
普費斯
It's called analogy and is arguably at the core of all advanced cognition.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
If it was no obstacle they'd already have replaced their old banger with a new car.
Of course it's an obstacle. One that some people could overcome, but also one that might be enough to prompt someone whose economic case for continuing as a car owner is already marginal, to decide not to replace their car. For example, the running costs of an already existing and paid-for old car might be similar to a car club subscription, but the cost of buying a new car that would not be used a lot, might be more.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
I actually think it's an excellent idea. Buy a 200 quid POS car, trade it in and get 2.5k for it, buy a 2.5k bike, then sell the bike for 2 grand to some tree hugging weirdo. I might start buying up old shitheap cars, in case they ever do something simar here.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Exactly. Everyone's a winner... Apart from the losers.Do it four or five times and voila, the dough to buy a banging motor
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Five cars on the scrapheap, five people with new ebikes bought at a discount, and only one new car on the road. Maybe Saul Goodman in jail for some kind of fraud offence, so a pretty decent result all round.Do it four or five times and voila, the dough to buy a banging motor
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
One car. Obviously you nip down the scrapyard and buy the thing back for €50 in order to scrap it again...
teuchter
je suis teuchter
What if I (or someone else with advanced cognition) am also down at the scrapyard, offering them €2000 for it?
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
I'll save you the journey to the scrapyard, just come round mine and you can buy as many €50 wrecks for €2000 as you can want.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Fraud? I didn't come up with the scheme, I merely availed of it, and I can't think of anything I'd enjoy more than taking money from both the government and cyclists. The thought of it makes me moist.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Seems like you are taking €2300 from each car owner, and giving a €500 discount to each e-bike purchasing cyclist. Go for it.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
This from the bright spark who's going around scrapyards paying 2000 quid for 50 quid bangers.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
What is it about car driving that brings out the inner daily mail reader?
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Probably the same thing that brings out the wanker in cyclists.
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
In other words, you cannot prove it. Just as I thought.
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
Reduced speeds is at most a deterrent but does not prevent someone from driving through the street in question, and does not come anywhere close to the act of actually banning all through traffic on large residential areas, with hefty fines for infractors, like it happens here now.Yes.
Dutch street design tends to use a slightly different means to get to the same end. They design residential streets such that the speed of traffic along it is reduced way down to something like 10mph. And they make a lot of streets one way for vehicles and both ways for bikes.
The end effect is very similar to creating no-through roads. Drivers are made to stick to the main roads, because the alternative would be much slower.
I can't keep up with whether you're currently moaning that things that work in other cities might not work in London - or whether you are moaning that they use other things in other cities which you would rather we used here. Either way, whether you use the filter/no-through roads approach, or the massively redesigned residential roads approach, you will end up with the same people moaning about the same things like how all the traffic is forced onto the main roads or how it takes longer to drive to somewhere or other since the streets were redesigned.
If you have any realinterest in understanding the Dutch approach there is quite a good explanation here -
I want my street to be like this…
I want my street to be like this… Reclaiming residential streets, Dutch street design, and why this REALLY REALLY matters. This might be the most important blog post I write on urban design &…robertweetman.wordpress.com
So the answer to my question of whether Amsterdam employs similarly restrictive measures as London’s LTNs remains a resounding NO. But thank you and all the others for trying.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Oh well. And you were so close to changing your mind too. If only we could have convinced you.
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
So you do concede that your earlier answer was wrong, correct?
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Are you genuinely this stupid or putting on an act?
Make London’s side streets like those of Amsterdam, along with the societal attitude changes, and LTN’s as implemented in London wouldn’t be required.
As things stand, they’re needed. See various posters on this thread for examples of why.
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
Uneducated, ill-informed and determined to stay that way. Millions just like him. Won't be responsible for his actions, so nanny state eventually has to weigh in with one-size-fits-all rules, which are too late to avert disaster.
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
LTNs are completely unfit for purpose if their aim is to significantly reduce car journeys in London. All they do is create cosy NIMBY zones in certain areas while making matters significantly worse for those poor sods living by trunk routes and the road users including bus passengers.
And let’s try to keep the discussion fucking civil, eh?
teuchter
je suis teuchter
This is just trotting out the same old stuff over and over again. The same evidence free claims that are made over and over, zillions of times each day on twitter or Facebook or in real life or whatever. We have an LTN thread on here which has been pretty much continually addressing all this literally for the past year and more. There is no shortage of opportunity for you to hear the responses to these claims which are now so well rehearsed. There's nothing anyone here can say in answer to them which is new or which hasn't been said to you before. So there's basically no point in going anywhere with it.
People have given answers to your questions about Amsterdam vs London. You're not interested in discussing those answers. It's just a waste of time. You have said you have no proposals for alternative ways to deal with what you seemingly acknowledge as problems. So what is there to talk about?
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Meanwhile, in a better place...
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
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