beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Do they need to?
Entirely unashamed anti car propaganda, and the more the better.
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
maomao
普費斯
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Here’s an article where they talk about filtering in Holland:
How to prevent rat running
Bollards have a bad reputation. They are considered dangerous for cycling and indeed many people get injured when they hit one, but bollards also have a very good side. They can regulate the traffi…
bicycledutch.wordpress.com
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
I think it proves that more cars means fewer road deaths.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Photoshop
Photoshop
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Yes.
Dutch street design tends to use a slightly different means to get to the same end. They design residential streets such that the speed of traffic along it is reduced way down to something like 10mph. And they make a lot of streets one way for vehicles and both ways for bikes.
The end effect is very similar to creating no-through roads. Drivers are made to stick to the main roads, because the alternative would be much slower.
I can't keep up with whether you're currently moaning that things that work in other cities might not work in London - or whether you are moaning that they use other things in other cities which you would rather we used here. Either way, whether you use the filter/no-through roads approach, or the massively redesigned residential roads approach, you will end up with the same people moaning about the same things like how all the traffic is forced onto the main roads or how it takes longer to drive to somewhere or other since the streets were redesigned.
If you have any realinterest in understanding the Dutch approach there is quite a good explanation here -
I want my street to be like this…
I want my street to be like this… Reclaiming residential streets, Dutch street design, and why this REALLY REALLY matters. This might be the most important blog post I write on urban design &…
robertweetman.wordpress.com
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
It's down to 10mph because of slow fucks on bikes. Remove the bikes and it'll be back to a respectable 60mph.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Tokyo
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Duckbilled Platypus.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
I forsee an upsurge in demand for clunkers that would otherwise go straight to the scrapyard as people buy them to trade in for electric bikes.
maomao
普費斯
Still gets people on bikes they otherwise couldn't afford.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
And they’ll go to the scrapyard after that? I’m not sure what the issue is there.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
Then why not just give a subsidy to someone to buy an electric (or pedal) bike without the need to surrender a car first? It's a safe bet that no-one taking up this scheme will actually reduce how many cars they have. The most likely outcome is that rather than trade in a second car against a new one is that they will trade the old car against an electric bike and then pay the extra cost of the replacement car or trade it in for a bike rather than just scrap it/send it to the auction.
Just giving an out and out subsidy would probably give a faster take up as people who would wait until their car is ready for replacement get one now and those who can't afford one (and probably doesn't have a car to trade) could also get one quickly.
maomao
普費斯
You know it's not. And the Nazi stuff was a bit 'people in glass houses' from a BMW driver too. Why don't you go the whole hog and get a Volkswagen?
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
There isn't an issue but if you want to encourage people to buy electric bikes (a policy I support) why not just give out and out subsidies anyway?
maomao
普費斯
It's very British to assume it's all a big scam without even knowing the details of the scheme. There could be some fairly simple protections against scheming the system or maybe they just recognise that letting people benefit directly from government money is a good thing all round.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
I'm sure it's genuine but why not straight out subsidise people to buy electric bikes anyway? I'm not criticising the scheme just think it could be done better by just giving people the 3000 Euro towards an electric bike without attaching any conditions other than it must be spent on a bike rather than champaigne and oysters.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
maomao
普費斯
Because dirty old cars will go to scrap rather than being sold to young drivers wanting something cheap. And the price of bangers goes up making driving a little more inconvenient.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
So the aim is to reduce the number of cars in Paris. Either
(a) give people €2500 towards an e-bike and make them get rid of their car
(b) give people €2500 towards an e-bike and let them keep their car.
It's very difficult to judge which would be the most effective. Very tricky. Really hard to tell.
(a) give people €2500 towards an e-bike and make them get rid of their car
(b) give people €2500 towards an e-bike and let them keep their car.
It's very difficult to judge which would be the most effective. Very tricky. Really hard to tell.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
Maybe the “replacement” element. It involves taking a car off the road. Also connects the dots re: the idea of a bike instead of a car, as opposed to all those bikes sat in garages in this country, bought with those “cycle to work” schemes while the owners are still driving.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Because they're not Bavarian.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
The person getting rid of the dirty old car will do what it is most cost-effective for them, If there is more money in selling it to a young (or poorer) driver then they will do that else they'll trade it in (which will almost certainly be more profitable than scrapping it themselves even if that is where the car ultimately ends up)
If option a) then there is absolutely nothing to stop them then buying another car (admittedly probably a cleaner more environmentally friendly one)
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Except that they have to pay for it.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
.. with the massive environmental cost of making a new car coming into the equation.
Not sure of the full details, though.
