Entirely unashamed anti car propaganda, and the more the better.

[Saul Goodman]

(fwiw, cycling rates in Amsterdam are still rising, with a corresponding reduction in car use. They'll be effectively gone eventually)

That's great, but given that motorists in the UK pump around £40 Billion a year in taxes into the coffers, how do you suppose a country of freeloading cyclists is going to pay for the NHS? Or are you suggesting that, like the Netherlands, we should ditch the NHS and require everyone to pay mandatory health insurance? Or didn't you think that far ahead?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

That's great, but given that motorists in the UK pump around £40 Billion a year in taxes into the coffers, how do you suppose a country of freeloading cyclists is going to pay for the NHS? Or are you suggesting that, like the Netherlands, we should ditch the NHS and require everyone to pay mandatory health insurance? Or didn't you think that far ahead?

You might want to dig a little deeper into the actual cost of motoring and supporting roads infrastructure, the cost of pollution and congestion etc etc. Car drivers are freeloaders, subsidised by everyone else.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Are you seriously suggesting that the very layout, demographics, geography, size, and existing transport infrastructure of a given city don’t really matter when considering implementing the transport model of a different city with visible differences in all those areas? That the same percentage of regular cyclists is exportable and easily achievable to any other city, just like that?

Do they matter? Of course. Will it happen “just like that”? No, it will be a long process, made harder by the reactionary idiots fighting it every step of the way. Is it possible? Yes.

 

[MickiQ]

That's not very nice.

No but it was necessary, if there had been eggs I might have tried moving the nest so it was over the grass though I believe that birds don't like that. But parking on the road or accepting my car covered in birdshit for several weeks isn't worth a few more pigeons in the world.
Sometimes harsh choices have to be made.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Sadly it seems unlikely you’re going to get anywhere near 100% reduction of those short car journeys by just facilitating quieter and safer cycling routes. A lot of people can’t or will not ditch their car for a bicycle regardless of how safe and fully car-free routes, for various reasons.

Some will simply can’t be arsed. Others can’t cycle. Others are not physically fit enough. Others cannot accomplish what their trip out requires on a bike (heavy shopping, giving a lift to others, etc). Others might be willing on principle but certainly not on all those days when it’s cold, or raining.

When discussing cycling with people those never come up, 99.99% of the time its because it's dangerous and ltns and cycle lanes improve that. Does it get cold in Copenhagen?

You don’t really need to be an expert in the field or wait for official reports a year down the line to know that, the best, safest cycling conditions possible are never going to achieve more than a small to moderate reduction of those short journeys. A great many people will simply not cycle, end of.

IMO it’d be very wishful thinking to think the LTN zones are ever in a million years going to convert a even third of those people who currently use their cars for short journeys to cycle, let alone all of them. A great many people will never ever cycle, that is the short answer. But I’ll eat my hat on a live feed if I’m wrong and these LTNs manage to convert even half of those making 2km journeys in cars in London to cycling or walking, never mind all of them.

You don't need to be an expert - common sense etc...

I know myself because I have seen more people commute when they put a cycle lane on my route. They work.

We've not even gone onto the pollution bit yet...

 

[teuchter]

London has managed to double the amount of cycle journeys, in the past couple of decades, so it's clear that there is scope to encourage more people to do it, even if the absolute number is still pretty small. It is going to be very interesting to see what happens this summer if/when people start returning to work in central London. On a purely anecdotal basis I know a few people who previously would not have considered cycling as a commute method, who have been doing it through the pandemic.

 

[Spymaster]

Cycling is 3 times worse for the environment than driving.

 

[nick]

Cycling is 3 times worse for the environment than driving.

you bastard.

 

[teuchter]

Cycling is 3 times worse for the environment than driving.

Dead link for me, can you check it?

 

[Spymaster]

Dead link for me, can you check it?

Sorted. Try it now.

 

[teuchter]

Sorted. Try it now.

Nope, still doesn't work.

 

[MickiQ]

you bastard.

I fell for it too.

 

[MickiQ]

London has managed to double the amount of cycle journeys, in the past couple of decades, so it's clear that there is scope to encourage more people to do it, even if the absolute number is still pretty small. It is going to be very interesting to see what happens this summer if/when people start returning to work in central London. On a purely anecdotal basis I know a few people who previously would not have considered cycling as a commute method, who have been doing it through the pandemic.

Cycling should absolutely be encouraged, environmental benefits aside, it has health benefits and is a great recreational activity for the whole family as well. I'm broadly in favour of anything that makes it safer for people to do. We need proper cycle lanes that are physically isolated from roads on which cars operate. Perhaps that will encourage people to consider using it as an alternative to SOME car journeys which is great but any idea that will result in a massive drop off of car ownership is nonsense. Like it or not outside the big cities in fact mostly just outside London, there is zero alternative (actual or plausible) to owning a car. Cars can and must be made more environmentally friendly, phase out the ICE in favour of electric/fuel cell vehicles and make them more recycleable by all means but no government would dare and no population will tolerate imposed rights on ownership.

 

[teuchter]

Cycling should absolutely be encouraged, environmental benefits aside, it has health benefits and is a great recreational activity for the whole family as well. I'm broadly in favour of anything that makes it safer for people to do. We need proper cycle lanes that are physically isolated from roads on which cars operate. Perhaps that will encourage people to consider using it as an alternative to SOME car journeys which is great but any idea that will result in a massive drop off of car ownership is nonsense. Like it or not outside the big cities in fact mostly just outside London, there is zero alternative (actual or plausible) to owning a car. Cars can and must be made more environmentally friendly, phase out the ICE in favour of electric/fuel cell vehicles and make them more recycleable by all means but no government would dare and no population will tolerate imposed rights on ownership.

This entire thread is about countering the view you have just spelled out. Feel free to bother reading it, if you want to. It's tiring to respond to the same, standard, points repeatedly.

 

[Saul Goodman]

We need proper cycle lanes that are physically isolated from roads on which cars operate.

I can think of plenty of places that fit that brief. Pripyat immediately springs to mind.

 

[Spymaster]

Feel free to bother reading it, if you want to.

Don't be silly. Nobody takes this thread seriously. It's just one to piss about on.

 

[teuchter]

Don't be silly. Nobody takes this thread seriously. It's just one to piss about on.

I know. MickiQ's post was just making fun of people stuck in outdated modes of thinking about transport. Mine was making fun of someone who thought that anyone could actually write that stuff seriously.

 

[8ball]

It's tiring to respond to the same, standard, points repeatedly.

Maybe naptime?

 

[Spymaster]

I know. MickiQ's post was just making fun of people stuck in outdated modes of thinking about transport. Mine was making fun of someone who thought that anyone could actually write that stuff seriously.

I didn't realise. I don't read most of yours.

 

[Saul Goodman]

You might want to dig a little deeper into the actual cost of motoring and supporting roads infrastructure, the cost of pollution and congestion etc etc. Car drivers are freeloaders, subsidised by everyone else.

The roads are necessary for haulage of silly little things like food, and other such frivolities. Car drivers also use the roads, and car drivers pay lots of taxes, so car drivers are actually subsidising your food, and pretty much everything else you buy. Cyclists, on the other hand... Freeloading fucks.

 

[MickiQ]

I didn't realise. I don't read most of yours.

I read all of his posts, they're great. He may come across as deranged but he is both consistent and highly entertaining.

 

[Saul Goodman]

I didn't realise. I don't read most of yours.

Nobody does (apart from MickiQ) . They all say the same thing, just with different words and varying degrees of joylessness.

 

[teuchter]

I don't read most of yours.

That's quite obvious from all the nonsense you write and all the basic things you get wrong. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink (from the fount of wisdom).

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

The roads are necessary for haulage of silly little things like food, and other such frivolities. Car drivers also use the roads, and car drivers pay lots of taxes, so car drivers are actually subsidising your food, and pretty much everything else you buy. Cyclists, on the other hand... Freeloading fucks.

No. Try again.

 

[Spymaster]

 

[T & P]

London has managed to double the amount of cycle journeys, in the past couple of decades, so it's clear that there is scope to encourage more people to do it, even if the absolute number is still pretty small. It is going to be very interesting to see what happens this summer if/when people start returning to work in central London. On a purely anecdotal basis I know a few people who previously would not have considered cycling as a commute method, who have been doing it through the pandemic.

Of of course there is scope for further conversion to cycling- not disputing that. But what I was questioning earlier were the claims or suggestions made by others in the last page or two that one could get rid of all short distance car journeys by a sufficiently improved cycling network.

Some people will never cycle, either because they can’t actually do so, or because they simply won’t for a range of reasons, from convenience to laziness to plain old refusal to do so. Such cases have nothing to do with cycling safety, and IMO it is wishful thinking that you would get rid of most, let alone all private car short journeys that currently take place by offering the best possible cycling conditions, however safe.

Banter aside, I have never questioned the benefits for everyone for increased cycle use. But I do maintain that some of the recently pro-cycling measures that rely on motor vehicle area-wide exclusions are not just inefficient, but actually making matters worse for everyone. I only wish that it is not going to take several years for the authorities to realise that making large areas of London inaccessible to through traffic, and causing perennial congestions on the remaining thoroughfares to cars, will have achieved a modest reduction in car journeys at best, while making conditions for all types of road users on those routes as well as the local residents along them a lot worse.

 

[teuchter]

The bicycle of course was invented in Scotland, by clever Scottish people (like most things). You can see that the Nazis hadn't worked out how to ride them, so just pushed them around like idiots (much like most modern car drivers would).

What did Hitler invent? He invented the mass-produced affordable car - which went on to do more damage to the world than WW2 did. Of course the Nazis wanted everyone to have a car. Hitler was very much in tune with a certain kind of person - the kind of person who wants to be a car owner.





Recognise the expression on Hitler's face? Yes, that's right, it's the same expression we know that certain posters on this thread have as they sit in their car and see someone less wealthy than them, perhaps waiting for a bus in the rain. Waiting for the bus because car drivers have voted for there to be insufficient funding for public transport. Just like the Nazis, these urban75 posters pretend to be "socialists" but actually believe themselves to be a master race.

It's not difficult to join the dots.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Of of course there is scope for further conversion to cycling- not disputing that. But what I was questioning earlier were the claims or suggestions made by others in the last page or two that one could get rid of all short distance car journeys by a sufficiently improved cycling network.

Some people will never cycle, either because they can’t actually do so, or because they simply won’t for a range of reasons, from convenience to laziness to plain old refusal to do so. Such cases have nothing to do with cycling safety, and IMO it is wishful thinking that you would get rid of most, let alone all private car short journeys that currently take place by offering the best possible cycling conditions, however safe.

Banter aside, I have never questioned the benefits for everyone for increased cycle use. But I do maintain that some of the recently pro-cycling measures that rely on motor vehicle area-wide exclusions are not just inefficient, but actually making matters worse for everyone. I only wish that it is not going to take several years for the authorities to realise that making large areas of London inaccessible to through traffic, and causing perennial congestions on the remaining thoroughfares to cars, will have achieved a modest reduction in car journeys at best, while making conditions for all types of road users on those routes as well as the local residents along them a lot worse.

Strange how it works everywhere else then. I know it’s nice to think that us Brits are something special but the reality doesn’t match up. Wherever good quality cycling infrastructure is built, cycling rates go up, with a corresponding drop in car journeys.

 

[8ball]

The bicycle of course was invented in Scotland, by clever Scottish people (like most things). You can see that the Nazis hadn't worked out how to ride them, so just pushed them around like idiots (much like most modern car drivers would).

What did Hitler invent? He invented the mass-produced affordable car - which went on to do more damage to the world than WW2 did. Of course the Nazis wanted everyone to have a car. Hitler was very much in tune with a certain kind of person - the kind of person who wants to be a car owner.

View attachment 263124

View attachment 263123

Recognise the expression on Hitler's face? Yes, that's right, it's the same expression we know that certain posters on this thread have as they sit in their car and see someone less wealthy than them, perhaps waiting for a bus in the rain. Waiting for the bus because car drivers have voted for there to be insufficient funding for public transport. Just like the Nazis, these urban75 posters pretend to be "socialists" but actually believe themselves to be a master race.

It's not difficult to join the dots.

... well, that post is certainly an effective evisceration of what passes for mental health care in this country.

 

[Orang Utan]

... well, that post is certainly an effective evisceration of what passes for mental health care in this country.

Sense of humour, you do not have