Entirely unashamed anti car propaganda, and the more the better.

[platinumsage]

That wasn't my question. Any deficiencies in the design of the installation are irrelevant to the matter of your competency.

I'm more interested in establishing the deficiencies in the design of the installation than convincing other people of my competency to do so. I would hope you would judge my competency by making your own assessment of the evidence and comparing our conclusions. I know plenty of "qualified highways engineers" who are not competent.

Furthermore, your assertion that they are only appropriate for "long shallow curves" appears to be made up.

I made no such assertion.

 

[teuchter]

I made no such assertion.

Good, then we can remove one of your objections to this particular siting.

Meanwhile here is an article about bollards by an actual highways engineer. You might be interested in the bit that points out that full height bollards can make children invisible to drivers.

What A Load Of Bollards!

bollards! they are everywhere on our streets, but do we really need so many of them? What are they for? who do they help? who do they hinde...

therantyhighwayman.blogspot.com

 

[platinumsage]

Good, then we can remove one of your objections to this particular siting.

Can we?

Meanwhile here is an article about bollards by an actual highways engineer. You might be interested in the bit that points out that full height bollards can make children invisible to drivers.

What A Load Of Bollards!

bollards! they are everywhere on our streets, but do we really need so many of them? What are they for? who do they help? who do they hinde...

therantyhighwayman.blogspot.com

I am well aware of that, but this tiny build-out doesn't contain a long straight row of bollards, or indeed bollards in the plural sense, so I don't see the relevance of your point.

That man "Ranty Highwayman" used to live locally to me, so I need no introduction to his ranting.

 

[platinumsage]

Anyway, at least you’ve acknowledged that there are potential design problems with bollards and their location, and that it’s not as simple as blaming everything on stupid drivers.

 

[edcraw]

From Nextdoor. Won’t anyone think of the poor drivers who are unable to see what’s on the pavement as they drive over it!

View attachment 308818

I was joking when I wrote this but it’s platinumsage actual position!

 

[platinumsage]

I was joking when I wrote this but it’s platinumsage actual position!

What other position is it reasonable to hold? Road design is meaningless? People who come a cropper on roads have only themselves to blame, and there's no point designing better infrastructure.? You're the joker here.

 

[edcraw]

What other position is it reasonable to hold? Road design is meaningless? People who come a cropper on roads have only themselves to blame, and there's no point designing better infrastructure.? You're the joker here.

Again - drivers shouldn’t drive on the pavement & should also be able to see big obstacles in their way. Hardly fucking radical.

 

[teuchter]

Anyway, at least you’ve acknowledged that there are potential design problems with bollards and their location, and that it’s not as simple as blaming everything on stupid drivers.

When a driver drives onto the pavement, then the driver is unambiguously 100% to blame for any resulting damage because they should not be on the pavement in the first place.

Of course I acknowledge that there are potential design problems with bollards and their location. All of these problems are a consequence of their necessity in the first place.

 

[platinumsage]

Again - drivers shouldn’t drive on the pavement & should also be able to see big obstacles in their way. Hardly fucking radical.

There are lots of things that people shouldn’t do, such as leave the gas on, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t design things to account for the fact that some people do those things sometimes, such as flame failure devices. Designing effective flame failure devices saves more lives then telling people not to be stupid and leave the gas on.

 

[platinumsage]

When a driver drives onto the pavement, then the driver is unambiguously 100% to blame for any resulting damage because they should not be on the pavement in the first place.

Of course I acknowledge that there are potential design problems with bollards and their location. All of these problems are a consequence of their necessity in the first place.

I assume you started this thread because you have competency in this subject, perhaps you are a Chartered Transport Planning Professional. If so you’ll know that blame isn’t a useful concept when it comes to designing safe environments.

 

[edcraw]

There are lots of things that people shouldn’t do, such as leave the gas on, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t design things to account for the fact that some people do those things sometimes, such as flame failure devices. Designing effective flame failure devices saves more lives then telling people not to be stupid and leave the gas on.

this design seems to be working rather effectively. It’s stopping drivers cutting the corner and if they do they’re penalised by having to pay to get their car off the bollard and repair the damage to it.

A normal bollard there would get hot and need to be replaced each time.

 

[platinumsage]

this design seems to be working rather effectively. It’s stopping drivers cutting the corner and if they do they’re penalised by having to pay to get their car off the bollard and repair the damage to it.

A normal bollard there would get hot and need to be replaced each time.

The main problem there is visibility. Despite the fact people on here like to see cars getting damaged it’s not actually a good thing because it can lead to injuries.

I can think of a wide variety of bollard and non-bollard solutions for that build-out that would be safer and require less maintenance.

Luckily it hasn’t flipped a car onto a pedestrian yet.

Car overturns after crashing into infamous bollard

A car overturned when it crashed into a metal "bell" blamed for several accidents at a busy junction.

www.kentonline.co.uk

 

[edcraw]

3 pages of defending driving on pavements! We’ve jumped the shark!

 

[platinumsage]

3 pages of defending driving on pavements! We’ve jumped the shark!

Do you always do this? Just criticise some fake thing that no one has said whenever the debate looks like it's getting too detailed or complicated for you?

 

[kabbes]

When a driver drives onto the pavement, then the driver is unambiguously 100% to blame for any resulting damage because they should not be on the pavement in the first place.

Whether or not somebody agrees with that (and I do), they must surely agree that if somebody is going to do something as dangerous as mounting a pavement with a car, it’s their duty to be absolutely and clearly aware of every single potential obstruction. To drive over a board like this is a clear dereliction of all duty of care. All kinds of things exist on pavements that shouldn’t be driven on. Thankfully, this was something that only inconvenienced the driver.

 

[teuchter]

I assume you started this thread because you have competency in this subject, perhaps you are a Chartered Transport Planning Professional. If so you’ll know that blame isn’t a useful concept when it comes to designing safe environments.

I consider myself to have full competency in initiating argumentative threads on urban75, yes,

But let's return to the specifics that you are trying to avoid. I think we can all assume you have no particular experience or competence in the detailed design of safe street environments. Nonetheless you seem to be making a specific proposal for this particular location, which is that the bell bollard should be replaced with some other kind of bollard. Is that correct?

 

[platinumsage]

I consider myself to have full competency in initiating argumentative threads on urban75, yes,

But let's return to the specifics that you are trying to avoid. I think we can all assume you have no particular experience or competence in the detailed design of safe street environments. Nonetheless you seem to be making a specific proposal for this particular location, which is that the bell bollard should be replaced with some other kind of bollard. Is that correct?

No, it’s not.

 

[teuchter]

No, it’s not.

What is it then?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Now, if only we had a qualified traffic engineer on these boards who designs road junctions and traffic infrastructure for a living

Paging Zapp Brannigan

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

You’re not v bright really are you?

Seriously, it’s taken you this long to work that out?

 

[platinumsage]

What is it then?

My position is that situating a single black bell bollard on a pavement buildout with a low kerb height such as this is unsafe, and that the Highways authority really ought to have realised this and implemented a different design, whether simply a different kind of obstruction e.g. bollard, or a completely different layout.

Having looked at Google streetview history I see that they added some trees after completion. Presumably to create a barrier because drivers were confused with the slightly different shade of yellow shared surface nonsense, and were driving on the pavement when turning out of that junction.

TBH the whole redesign is a mess and I’m glad I don’t live in Clapham.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

Now, if only we had a qualified traffic engineer on these boards who designs road junctions and traffic infrastructure for a living

Paging Zapp Brannigan

227 pages bro, point me to where this particular argument started

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

227 pages bro, point me to where this particular argument started

Essentially our resident Poundland Clarkson seems to think measures preventing cars driving on pavements are a bad thing, but if you start at post 6722 (page 225) you’ll get the idea

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

platinumsage out of his depth again and needing to respond to every post anyway with meaningless drivel.

This is the pavement in question by the way.

View attachment 308829

Quite nice piece of design. High contrast between the blacktop road surface and the kerbs and paving slabs, excellent for alerting drivers where the sodding road is.

A bigger bollard with reflective strips isn't needed because it's not there to highlight an inconspicuous hazard (e.g. a road narrowing in an unlit street), it's there to stop drivers from making a deliberate choice to do something stupid (i.e. mount the pavement where there's no need to).

Don't drive on the pavement, don't hit the bollard. Simple as that really.

 

[edcraw]

Do you always do this? Just criticise some fake thing that no one has said whenever the debate looks like it's getting too detailed or complicated for you?

That’s the point that you’re making though isn’t it? Drivers are always going to drive on pavements so we need to design infrastructure to stop them doing it.

 

[edcraw]

Having looked at Google streetview history I see that they added some trees after completion. Presumably to create a barrier because drivers were confused with the slightly different shade of yellow shared surface nonsense, and were driving on the pavement when turning out of that junction.

Maybe they put in trees because they are nice. Or can we not have nice things because there are lots of shit drivers?

 

[Spymaster]

Maybe they put in trees because they are nice.

 

[teuchter]

Presumably to create a barrier because drivers were confused with the slightly different shade of yellow shared surface nonsense, and were driving on the pavement when turning out of that junction.

I actually agree that without the trees it could be confusing to an inattentive driver:




However, with the trees it's entirely clear that you are supposed to go onto the road in front of you, and then turn left into the other street:




So it remains a mystery why the bell bollard is a problem. It's not a "pavement build-out" it's a section of pavement in between two road junctions, one of which has a raised platform with markings that clearly indicate to drivers that they are crossing a pedestrian zone.

You think they need some extra assistance in understanding what is pavement and what isn't, here, apparently.

 

[edcraw]

Love that all the mini Clarksons realise how bizarre platinumsage position is and are keeping shtum.

Obv Spy is posting goat images but at least it’s not goatse which is prob his true love.

 

[Spymaster]