Entirely unashamed anti car propaganda, and the more the better.
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
You’re putting a lot of faith in the 60% of households without cars voting to scrap LTNs there.
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
Those 60% of households without cars are still enduring much longer bus journey times on a number of bus routes in the aera, and undoubtedly far worse pollution along Christchurch Road, to a smaller degree on Tulse Hill (road). The only winners are the very well-to-do residents of the leafy conservation area that already had small volumes of traffic before the NIMBY zone was imposed, who now have a bit less.
Make no mistake, because I live there and go through it every day: The South Circular has become, much, much, much fucking worse for many, many more hours of the day because of the extremely ill-thought LTNs that have been created in the area. Some LTNs might work and be fully justified. But not all are. It's a fucking shitshow in the Tulse Hill area, and the sooner they are removed, the better.
I also live next to the Sth Circular there and call bullshit.
As for buses, TfL’s done good work on 24hr bus lanes and widening them + restricting turns that have speeded buses up a lot. These have also been opposed by drivers at every turn
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
You call bullshit all you want, but clearly you don't go through the Christchurch Road section of it very often. If you did, as I do twice a day, you would know that the traffic is invariably a lot worse since the LTNs were introduced.I also live next to the Sth Circular there and call bullshit.
As for buses, TfL’s done good work on 24hr bus lanes and widening them + restricting turns that have speeded buses up a lot. These have also been opposed by drivers at every turn
And there are no bus lanes on that stretch of the road of course, so buses are as caught up in the perma-jam as everyone else. Let's not even mention the people who live alongside the road and are exposed to additional levels of noise and pollution they had never experienced that frequently before the LTNs.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Boo boo
It’s almost as if they’re encouraging people not to use cars and to switch to public transport and bicycles
It’s the Sth Circular crossing the A23 - there’s always been traffic caused by… too much traffic.
Luckily the bus only uses a short section of it and now doesn’t get stuck on Upper Tulse Hill by cars trying to pass each other with parked cars either side. I know as I use the bus rather than adding to the traffic on the Sth Circular.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
They've been binning them up here. The latest one was the moronic 24hr bus/cycle lane on the Finchley Rd., which frequently had a queue of traffic in a single lane from the O2 back to Swiss Cottage, alongside an empty lane. Lasted for about 3 months. I think they're being taken out quicker than they're going in. Which is obviously a good thing.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
At least they weren't a complete waste of taxpayer money.
What happens is this... people who are good for nothing else end up in government jobs, so you get the likes of edcraw spending a few years brainstorming and coming up with silly ideas that even teuchter would realise were face-palm worthy. So they either double down or quietly remove the fuck up. Obviously the former if the latter will negatively effect them.
Anyway, we’re getting off topic here the thread for this is here:
www.urban75.net
Where you can see the “treasurer” of One Lambeth defend comparisons of the Holocaust to LTNs and claim vandalism of LTN signs is a false flag operation by supporters!
Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists
About Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood aims to realise the great potential Brixton has for walking and cycling while improving air quality, reducing congestion, supporting local businesses and providing for the growth in jobs and homes planned for the area. We...
www.urban75.net
Where you can see the “treasurer” of One Lambeth defend comparisons of the Holocaust to LTNs and claim vandalism of LTN signs is a false flag operation by supporters!
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Seems to be going well so far
I feel sorry for people that live in Ealing but binning the LTNs there might actually be rather helpful to the long term cause, because people will see that removing them doesn't magically make the traffic go away.
A bit like this thread, the car-people that don't think things through unwittingly make the other side of the argument look more legitimate.
I’m pretty sure all of that traffic chaos is a false flag operation, by pro ltn types
For anyone that actually wants to do any kind of critical thinking about LTNs this graph shows how sat navs have had the affect of increasing road capacity in London by routing traffic down minor roads whilst having hardly any affect on A & B roads and so increased miles driven and so pollution. But yeah LTNs cause pollution 
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Don't be silly.Ah yes, the Finchley Road was always idyllic before
You’re right- it’s always been a shot show and it’s almost like we need fewer people driving!
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Wibble!
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
Before bothering to discuss LTNs any further, can I ask those in favour of them if they are actually prepared to consider the possibility that even if the great majority work well, there could also be some individual ones that are proving to make things worse, and in such cases removing them would be the better course of action? Or are your minds closed to that possibility just on general principle? Because if it’s the latter there’d be little point to continue any further debate on this.
Yeah - I’m sure there are instances where there are badly designed.
Can you agree with the principle that traffic should use A & B roads for the majority of their journeys and use minor roads for only the first and last parts?
teuchter
je suis teuchter
If I say "no" would this guarantee that I never have to read your thoughts about them again, what with you seeing no point in continuing debate?
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
On principle yes but depending on the local traffic geography and allowing for exceptions if it’s deemed local restrictions might create an undesirable amount of congestion on the main roads. Which is why I don’t oppose all LTNs, but some.
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
Where would the fun be in that?
The problem is is that it’s very difficult to see any actual genuine concerns about LTNs as so much of the opposition is against the slightest inconvenience to drivers and all changes (24/7 bus lanes, cycle lanes etc.) are opposed by the seemingly the same people & there’s so much hyperbole about 10min journeys now taking and hour and a half.
And also, One Lambeth raising £50k to supposedly support people with disabilities when really they just see this as a way of scrapping them
I don’t see how the Tulse Hill one isn’t working. Upper Tulse Hill used to be a stream of commercial traffic trying to simply avoid the Sth Circular. It causes congestion by the vehicles then having to join main roads (Sth Circular & Brixton Hill) when they should have already been on them.
That's a strange thing to think. Are you lumping nurses and teachers in there? And paramedics and hospital/public drs?
Last edited:
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
I find it hilarious that people who have chosen to live on through-routes in central London are complaining about the roads outside their house being used by vehicles to get from one place to another.
Funnily enough you don’t hear similar complaints from people who have chosen to live on a cul-de-sac in Nempnett Thrubwell, I wonder why that is?
Funnily enough you don’t hear similar complaints from people who have chosen to live on a cul-de-sac in Nempnett Thrubwell, I wonder why that is?
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
There is one thing, and one thing only, that causes traffic and makes it worse. Until you get this there really is little point in continuing any debate.
maomao
普費斯
Ella Kissi-Debrah should have moved to Somerset.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Her mum is a vociferous opponent of LTNs.
It’s not particularly the people living on these streets that support LTNs - in fact quite a few oppose as they’re more likely to be richer and so car owners and are inconvenienced.
Anyway, none of these streets were built for motor vehicles let alone the volumes we see. There’s a reason why most post war housing has been built explicitly to not allow through traffic. LTNs are simply retrofitting cul de sacs that would have been put in place of cars had been around when these streets were built.
