EnglishWelsh Defence League, British Campaign agin Muslim Extremist, Causuals United

[durruti02]

Oh, give over. Man up and deal with the things that IP says instead of trying to close down debate. And the speculation (which is all it ever really was) about the Choudhary thing in London is of genuine interest - if the EDL is true to its founding causes they'll be torn over what to do on the 31st

spion yes it is worth discussing many things inc london v leeds for the EDL .. but IP has no links into this murky world, as many inc me, on here do and hence though was coming out with totally idle and pointless speculation yet stating categorically what would happen to the extent that someone else ran with it, that EDL had cancelled Leeds when they had not

... sorry but IP says nowt of worth and worse just chats shite frankly .. i put very few people on ignore ( fyi Drink, One Stop Shop, Brassicitique, Carousel, IP and Tarranu ) not for political reason or to avoid argument but as they just simply talk rubbish and smear not once but regularly

and yes accusing people of being of being far right or racist or whatever is certainly far worse than putting someone on ignore as yes it is entirely possible that in the real world someone will decide to take action on that .. in my case unlikely as i am well known but ..

 

[tarannau]

I don't smear you Durrutti. I call you unhealthily obsessed one-issue simpleton, and with good reason too.

We've seen your laughable smear attempts on the 'blood-libel' issue, so I sincerely suggest that you wind your neck in and stop trying to claim the moral high ground.

<expects another torrent of simplistic islam(ofash)-obsessed nonsense and more self-aggrandising 'prolier than thou' pish

 

[The39thStep]

I don't smear you Durrutti. I call you unhealthily obsessed one-issue simpleton, and with good reason too.

We've seen your laughable smear attempts on the 'blood-libel' issue, so I sincerely suggest that you wind your neck in and stop trying to claim the moral high ground.

<expects another torrent of simplistic islam(ofash)-obsessed nonsense and more self-aggrandising 'prolier than thou' pish

I actually find Durutti healthily concerned with a wide number of issues affecting the working class and offering challange and insight. Might not agree with everything he says but in no way is he an 'unhealthily obsessed one-issue simpleton'

Btw you may or have may not noticed but race and immigraon is a priority issue in most Mori voter polls.

 

[durruti02]

lake's got his agenda. He wants to be more public and outspoken about islam but knows he can't do it without some form of physical backup. No difficult to know what role he sees for the edl.

who is he though ?

6 part series

but he doesn't seem to google .. the only reference is this

" .. Alan Lake, a 45-year-old businessman from Highgate, North London .. " which is simply copied from link to link

is he the same Alan Lake who is secretary of Aquarius Archery Club in Highgate?

http://www.aquarius-archers.org.uk/index.php

one link has him as 'alan lake' as if that is NOT his name

 

[Fedayn]

who is he though ?

6 part series

but he doesn't seem to google .. the only reference is this

" .. Alan Lake, a 45-year-old businessman from Highgate, North London .. " which is simply copied from link to link

He's on youtube linking up with the 'Euronationalist' Swedish Democrats.

 

[belboid]

Btw you may or have may not noticed but race and immigraon is a priority issue in most Mori voter polls.

not as much as one might think tho

"A quarter (25%) are concerned about race relations/immigration, although public concern about this issue has been dropping over the past three months."

http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/poll.aspx?oItemId=2452

Even amongst BNP voters it isnt the number one issue

 

[tarannau]

And that's in a media climate that continually prattles on about immigration. Add to that push most people on what they believe about immigration and they'll mention rumours, half truths and misplaced perceptions than the more prosaic reality. There's too often a hysterical, uninformed tone to the 'debate'

Immigration and the BNP should be much smaller issues than they are, both on here and in general. There's an unhealthy obsession about them generally, both here and in the wider world.

 

[revlon]

who is he though ?

6 part series

but he doesn't seem to google .. the only reference is this

" .. Alan Lake, a 45-year-old businessman from Highgate, North London .. " which is simply copied from link to link

is he the same Alan Lake who is secretary of Aquarius Archery Club in Highgate?

http://www.aquarius-archers.org.uk/index.php

aye listened to all 6.

Trouble is there's a few alan lake's floating about on google (including diana dors ex!)

I'd recommened listening to his youtube videos. You kind of see where edl are getting their tactical approach from. And now it's all comfortably together under the 4freedoms banner, who knows.

 

[The39thStep]

not as much as one might think tho

"A quarter (25%) are concerned about race relations/immigration, although public concern about this issue has been dropping over the past three months."

http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/poll.aspx?oItemId=2452

Even amongst BNP voters it isnt the number one issue

There is no denying that race and immigration are seen as key issues Belboid. I would anticipate that when you pick through issues about the recession you will find that race and immigration will surface time and time again.

Incidentially the You Gov polls just after the Euro elections found that 87% of BNP supporters saw immigration as one of the biggest issues, compared to 49% of voters as a whole.

Among supporters of the Conservatives, UKIP, and BNP (and presumably, English Democrats) majorities favour stopping all further immigration, withdrawing from the EU, consider Islam to be a threat to Western civilisation, disagree that recent immigration has helped the British economy, and believe that white people are unfairly discriminated against.What marks the BNP as different to the other parties on the right is that many of the party’s supporters are genuinely racially prejudiced, and are very hostile to homosexuality. The views of Labour, Liberal Democrat, and Green voters are diametrically opposed (although large minorities of their voters hold right wing views on these subjects).


Against these polls there is also longer term evidence that less people think that in order to be British you have to be white .

Its a mixed picture but it does show that there is a widespread eurosceptic anti immigration and nationalist current into which racism can expand , I think we can see this with fears about Islam.

Poses some problems for the liberal left with its general pro Europe, open borders and internationalist concerned approach..

 

[durruti02]

not as much as one might think tho

"A quarter (25%) are concerned about race relations/immigration, although public concern about this issue has been dropping over the past three months."

http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/poll.aspx?oItemId=2452

Even amongst BNP voters it isnt the number one issue

not sure anyone ever suggested it was a number 1 issue just it was a key issue but yes priority is maybe wrong word .. whats fascinating in that graft of unemployment is how mass unemployment has come to be taken for granted

 

[durruti02]

aye listened to all 6.

Trouble is there's a few alan lake's floating about on google (including diana dors ex!)

I'd recommened listening to his youtube videos. You kind of see where edl are getting their tactical approach from. And now it's all comfortably together under the 4freedoms banner, who knows.

can't you summarise for us??

 

[belboid]

There is no denying that race and immigration are seen as key issues Belboid.

whoever said anything different Steptoe?

Incidentially the You Gov polls just after the Euro elections found that 87% of BNP supporters saw immigration as one of the biggest issues, compared to 49% of voters as a whole.

can't find the elevant poll now, buit I really dont think it was quite that high - 87% of BNP voters thought immigrants 'jumped the queue' for housing, but that's not the same thing.

Poses some problems for the liberal left with its general pro Europe, open borders and internationalist concerned approach..

No more so than in previous decades when the same was also true. Certainly no reason to dump principles just for (hoped for) short term gain.

 

[The39thStep]

whoever said anything different Steptoe?


can't find the elevant poll now, buit I really dont think it was quite that high - 87% of BNP voters thought immigrants 'jumped the queue' for housing, but that's not the same thing.



No more so than in previous decades when the same was also true. Certainly no reason to dump principles just for (hoped for) short term gain.

Funnily enough I was talking to some one we both know about you the other night and trying to work out how you get so irritated.

Apart, from the fact that the present period is not the same as previous decades and thus might require a diffrent approach from the stopped clock tactics of Trostskyism ,since when has being pro European, anti borders etc been a principle?

 

[durruti02]

people may also have missed SWANSEA 17TH OCTOBER and NEWPORT 24TH OCTOBER

 

[belboid]

Funnily enough I was talking to some one we both know about you the other night and trying to work out how you get so irritated.

being bored of those that come out with stuff that sounds like it is being said to create an excuse to sit on their arse might be one thing.*

Apart, from the fact that the present period is not the same as previous decades and thus might require a diffrent approach from the stopped clock tactics of Trostskyism ,since when has being pro European, anti borders etc been a principle?

I wouldn't agree that being 'pro european' is a current aspect of the 'left', now or in the past. Being against migration controls and in favour of internationalism certainly is tho.

As to the extent to which 'the present period' is totally different to previous times, I dont fully agree. For sure there are important differences - not least the weakness of the left - but are they fundamental differences? I dont think so. It means we have to adapt our strategy and tactics, but not our principles.


*e2a: oh, and hangovers

 

[audiotech]

If you're going to play at mendacity then smearing people as far-right is to call for them to be physically attacked.

Exaggeration to the extreme.

 

[durruti02]

so EDL now planning to do both Leeds and LOndon on the 31st, after a day of confusion and anger at each other .. people saying now they won't go to either and some saying if EDL get done in Leeds it will be the fault of those who changed the location .. fun fun fun .. more deatils on S4UK thread

Lady England
just got home, OFFICIAL STANCE OF EDL FOR 31ST = LONDON against ANJEM CHOUDRAY, all those that are able to attend contact me direct for meeting points etc, anyone unable to make london and still wish to have a presence in LEEDS that day let me know a...s need to let police know asap, I will be co-ordinating london, will have the banners etc and we need to show him we wont let him take our CAPITAL CITY !

Lady England wrote at 16:29
after talking to tommy all day, it has been decided that our main demo will be london as our primary objectives are against anjem choudray and sharia law and this is where he will be, we need to show him he cant make demands in our capitol city or against our monarch, anyone unabvle to make london and still wishing to go to leeds to protest contact me for details as we will be having a simultanous demo there for those that want it or cant make london

 

[durruti02]

and if you ever wondered who did what they have very kindly just told us


Lady England wrote at 17:34

ok let me explain how the edl works, tommy robinson is main organiser, trevor kelway deals with press etc, i am police liason dealing with all official form filling and meetings to make sure our protests are legal, joel titus is edl youth main person, joe cardiff is wdl and casuals, John sheridon is also an integral main part of edl, as a group as a whole all main admins talk between themselves and decide on next move, we do consult ppl but as so many fb groups and so much infiltration by uaf etc that is hard to control via facebook, that is why we encourage ppl to use the forum.

I do understand the confusion many have felt today re leeds v london, but as i said previously i have been on phone all day trying to confirm and arrange things, lots of ppl are involved with organising and i do try to keep up with all different groups boards and forums, but i draw the line at 12/14 hrs a day and 300+ e-mails, if anyone has any serious concerns feel free to pm me personally.

 

[tbaldwin]

And that's in a media climate that continually prattles on about immigration. Add to that push most people on what they believe about immigration and they'll mention rumours, half truths and misplaced perceptions than the more prosaic reality. There's too often a hysterical, uninformed tone to the 'debate'

Immigration and the BNP should be much smaller issues than they are, both on here and in general. There's an unhealthy obsession about them generally, both here and in the wider world.

There are a lot of hysterical and uninformed views on immigration tarannau.
Agree with you on that but you sadly think those only come from people who disagree with you.
Your views on immigration seem to be cliched in the extreme and tend to ignore the reality that mass economic migration makes the world a far more unequal place.

 

[tarannau]

And what is your evidence for immigration making the 'world a more unequal place?"

Somehow I doubt you'll be able to provide any real information to back up your nuanced claims, instead wittering on about nurses and doctors being poached by the NHS again. The world has been an unequal place for pretty much as long as humankind has existed, but are you really claiming that global inequality has widened with wider international trade and migration? Is it worse now, for example, than the days of empire and pillaging colonies for resources? There's a balance somewhere, but your simplistic claim seems hard to fathom.

 

[tbaldwin]

And what is your evidence for immigration making the 'world a more unequal place?"

Somehow I doubt you'll be able to provide any real information to back up your nuanced claims, instead wittering on about nurses and doctors being poached by the NHS again. The world has been an unequal place for pretty much as long as humankind has existed, but are you really claiming that global inequality has widened with wider international trade and migration? Is it worse now, for example, than the days of empire and pillaging colonies for resources? There's a balance somewhere, but your simplistic claim seems hard to fathom.

The evidence for economic migration being a net negative is shown all over Africa and Asian in poorer countries losing the young and skilled workers they most need.
The evidence you would see if you spent any time say in a hospital is skilled workers coming from some of the poorest nations on earth.
People who have seen their families and countries torn apart by the kind of policies you support.

 

[tarannau]

That's not evidence at all Balders, that's you piping up with same old nonsense once again.

There's of course the growth of remittances, of some families gaining greater social mobility as a result, and the sheer fact that many developing nations are capable of training and providing qualified health care professionals at all. A few generations those achievements would have been nigh on impossible - empires like ours would have simply taken resources, by force if necessary, and offered little to native workers other than employment under expat middle managers.

I've spent plenty of time in hospital fwiw, with some of my family taking exactly that route. And guess what, some have gone back home to take their skills back too.

 

[belboid]

oh dont get him started on his one subject, yet again. the tedious twat has destroyed enough threads with his ill-informed gibberish already

 

[tbaldwin]

That's not evidence at all Balders, that's you piping up with same old nonsense once again.

There's of course the growth of remittances, of some families gaining greater social mobility as a result, and the sheer fact that many developing nations are capable of training and providing qualified health care professionals at all. A few generations those achievements would have been nigh on impossible - empires like ours would have simply taken resources, by force if necessary, and offered little to native workers other than employment under expat middle managers.

I've spent plenty of time in hospital fwiw, with some of my family taking exactly that route. And guess what, some have gone back home to take their skills back too.

Its evidence that you choose to ignore as you have been influenced to believe what basically amounts to a load of reactionary racist nonsense.

The remittances arguement is just part of that nonsense....The farcical idea that somehow people sending money home to their individual families somehow compensates a whole nation for losing skilled workers is classic trickle down economics.

 

[tarannau]

Balders, the fact that you're continually harping about this one aspect of inequality, with no facts or stats to back your tiresomely repetitive one trick pony viewpoint, betrays just how weak your position is. As a whole wouldn't you say that many developing nations are increasingly improving their lot compared to the past (and their past masters) suggests that that global inequality is lessening in many ways?

Please explain the 'reactionary racist nonsense' line to me. Whilst you may be frothing, you're not making much sense.

 

[tbaldwin]

Balders, the fact that you're continually harping about this one aspect of inequality, with no facts or stats to back your tiresomely repetitive one trick pony viewpoint, betrays just how weak your position is. As a whole wouldn't you say that many developing nations are increasingly improving their lot compared to the past (and their past masters) suggests that that global inequality is lessening in many ways?

Please explain the 'reactionary racist nonsense' line to me. Whilst you may be frothing, you're not making much sense.

tarannau. Its reactionary racist nonsense to ignore unfair trade,slavery and economic migration as factors that hold nations and people back.

The idea that many developing nations are increasingly improving is an attractive one perpetuated by people who think the economist and ngo statistics are good sources of information.
How mant times have we had to read bullshit about how well India is doing!
Yeah right a country rich in natural resources where 880 million people live on less than $2 a day....

Under the days of imperialism rich countries plundered poorer countries of natural resources including people........Do you really think that plundering those countries of the people they need ended with the abolition of slavery?

 

[invisibleplanet]

Is Balders saying that we should stop Brits emigrating to Oz, Canada, Spain, New Zealand etc?
e.g. 200,000 Britons emigrated in 2007

 

[Grandma Death]

what you think people support jihad?? lol

Thats not what you said.

 

[tbaldwin]

Is Balders saying that we should stop Brits emigrating to Oz, Canada, Spain, New Zealand etc?
e.g. 200,000 Britons emigrated in 2007

I think all migration needs to be tightly controlled. And the white migrants we have from SA,NZ and Australia should definetely be tightly controlled and vice versa.
Often you will find white migrants like them find it a lot easier to get jobs than Black and asian people who grew up in this country.

 

[durruti02]

hey peeps can we keep this on topic ( p.s. just txted you )