Electric cars

[Dogsauce]

Looking forward to this though:

View attachment 302079

The mistake you’re making is thinking that cheaper batteries will make for more economic cars, rather than the production/cost savings of batteries being eaten up by the continuing trend for bigger stupider vehicles with more energy and battery requirements.

 

[platinumsage]

is it?

Aren't people looking forward/slightly towards the outside of the car and so it's further to go towards the centre as well down surely? What am I missing here?
View attachment 302147

Really hard to demonstrate with a 2D photograph but firstly your eyes need to be, on average, at the middle of the windscreen and not just on one side. Secondly by placing the nav screen in the middle just below the windscreen, the exterior is in your near-peripheral vision at all times, with minimal refocusing needed:

 

[platinumsage]

The mistake you’re making is thinking that cheaper batteries will make for more economic cars, rather than the production/cost savings of batteries being eaten up by the continuing trend for bigger stupider vehicles with more energy and battery requirements.

OK, come back here in five years and tell me that the cheapest electric Nissan SUV is more than £40k in today's terms and I'll donate a fiver to the server fund.

 

[Dogsauce]

View attachment 302111

Whoever is responsible for this needs to be forcibly removed from their job and never allowed near a car ever again.

Quite like that it appears to have a 1980s radio cassette player below the dashboard.

 

[MrCurry]

Looking forward to this though:

View attachment 302079

I’m looking forward to looking back at these graphs in 2025 and calling them out for the BS I strongly suspect they are. No way are batteries going to fall in price so precipitously that the retail price of the whole vehicle will halve in a little over five years, and no surprise to see such bad information being presented as though it’s fact in that most untrustworthy of organs the Daily Mail.

Please someone remember to bump this in 4 years time so we can compare some prices against those dodgy graphs.

 

[platinumsage]

I’m looking forward to looking back at these graphs in 2025 and calling them out for the BS I strongly suspect they are. No way are batteries going to fall in price so precipitously that the retail price of the whole vehicle will halve in a little over five years, and no surprise to see such bad information being presented as though it’s fact in that most untrustworthy of organs the Daily Mail.

Please someone remember to bump this in 4 years time so we can compare some prices against those dodgy graphs.

The source is here, if you'd care to criticise the actual details:

Hitting the EV inflection point

Can the entire EU go to 100% electric car and van sales by 2035 in order to decarbonise road transport by 2050? Can a small business as well as an average…

www.transportenvironment.org

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

The G80 M4 has a drift analyzer which is fucking sicc.

QED

 

[kabbes]

The brain has different systems for giving attention to different types of stimulus, and a master executive to integrate them. As long as the executive isn’t over stressed, you can share attention across multiple systems, but you can’t do it within the same system. That’s why you can listen to the radio whilst driving — the auditory system is separate to the visuo-spatial system. One of the problems of using a mobile phone is that, intriguingly, when you talk on a phone, you use your visual system to literally picture what is being spoken about as well as the audio system to listen. That overtaxes the v-s attention system, and distracts from looking at the road. Indeed, even for a few minutes after the call, the system is still paying visual attention to what has just been discussed.

Given all this well-established information, it’s an extraordinary folly to require visual attention to a screen to adjust settings in the car. It’s literally not possible to drive whilst paying due care and attention and also change things on a screen. Physical knobs at least partially use a different sensory system and are much safer. Even then, though, there should be a limited number of them

 

[DownwardDog]

Quite like that it appears to have a 1980s radio cassette player below the dashboard.

They deliberately made the HVAC controls look like an old car stereo as the whole interior is loosely based on a first gen Civic.

 

[platinumsage]

I find I prefer to use voice commands while driving. Rather than faffing about with the aircon controls, or using the touchscreen to choose a destination for the navigation, I can just press a button on the steering wheel and say "I'm cold", or "take me home".

 

[MrCurry]

The source is here, if you'd care to criticise the actual details:

Hitting the EV inflection point

Can the entire EU go to 100% electric car and van sales by 2035 in order to decarbonise road transport by 2050? Can a small business as well as an average…

www.transportenvironment.org

No point criticising details now, only time will tell. If in 2025 EVs are nearly half their current price I’ll match your £5 pledge above. Can’t say fairer than that.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

USB

What phone hasn’t got Bluetooth nowadays?

 

[BigTom]

Really hard to demonstrate with a 2D photograph but firstly your eyes need to be, on average, at the middle of the windscreen and not just on one side. Secondly by placing the nav screen in the middle just below the windscreen, the exterior is in your near-peripheral vision at all times, with minimal refocusing needed:

View attachment 302243

If the middle console is raised compared to the dashboard like that I can see it, but I don't think that green circle is where you should be spending most of your time looking at when you are driving (or where it'd be on average), because that would mean you are looking towards the pavement on your left more than you are on the lane in front of you/next to you - that doesn't seem right to me and I really don't think it's what I do when driving so would appreciate some links and more info please.

 

[DownwardDog]

The new electric Ducati looks mint.

 

[kabbes]

Not an electric car though.

 

[Teaboy]

Going back the conversation about the cost of running EV's v ICE cars this short video may be interesting to some (or it may not) as it does some maths for relatively low mileage.

 

[MrCurry]

Going back the conversation about the cost of running EV's v ICE cars this short video may be interesting to some (or it may not) as it does some maths for relatively low mileage.

Interesting video. I wonder how much of what he calls the “higher efficiency” of the new skoda EV versus the Leaf is actually attributable to its battery being in much better condition? Presumably the ten year old Leaf is carrying cells which have a higher internal resistance due to ageing and all the other factors which affect the condition of lithium batteries, so the range per charge won’t be what it was when that leaf was brand new.

I wouldn’t be rushing into buying a 10 year old EV when so little is known about how these batteries perform when older, especially when the residual prices are staying so high that buying a new one isn’t much of a cost premium compared to second hand.

 

[Teaboy]

Interesting video. I wonder how much of what he calls the “higher efficiency” of the new skoda EV versus the Leaf is actually attributable to its battery being in much better condition? Presumably the ten year old Leaf is carrying cells which have a higher internal resistance due to ageing and all the other factors which affect the condition of lithium batteries, so the range per charge won’t be what it was when that leaf was brand new.

I wouldn’t be rushing into buying a 10 year old EV when so little is known about how these batteries perform when older, especially when the residual prices are staying so high that buying a new one isn’t much of a cost premium compared to second hand.

Yeah, I share your concerns and I'm naturally a late adopter. If it were my money on the line I'd certainly be cautious about battery longevity.

In a different video he does say that the batteries have lost 25% charge / range ability over the 10 years. That's not so bad and its not like ICE cars don't degrade in all sorts of ways as well. It is important to point out though that the leaf he has is pretty much genesis when we're talking about purpose built mass market EV's. The battery technology moved on very quickly particularly the battery cooling systems. Leaf drivers of a similar age vehicle but made in Sunderland with better battery tech are reporting battery capacity loss closer to 10%.

 

[hash tag]

The G80 M4 has a drift analyzer which is fucking sicc.

6force

i would much rather have a g-force meter.

 

[hash tag]

BTW Rubbish gadgets on modern new cars

 

[Almor]

If the middle console is raised compared to the dashboard like that I can see it, but I don't think that green circle is where you should be spending most of your time looking at when you are driving (or where it'd be on average), because that would mean you are looking towards the pavement on your left more than you are on the lane in front of you/next to you - that doesn't seem right to me and I really don't think it's what I do when driving so would appreciate some links and more info please.

A quick look for MOT/WOF windscreen damage rules suggests that the governments of UK and NZ disagree about the centre being the most important part of the screen on average too

From 3. Visibility - MOT inspection manual: cars and passenger vehicles - Guidance - GOV.UK

From Glazing - NZTA Vehicle Portal

I didn't think much about this while driving earlier but looking through the middle of the screen over the touch screen in our car would have had me looking at the pavement more than the road, mostly looking slightly left of the centre of the steering wheel except when turning, or parking

 

[kabbes]

A quick look for MOT/WOF windscreen damage rules suggests that the governments of UK and NZ disagree about the centre being the most important part of the screen on average too

From 3. Visibility - MOT inspection manual: cars and passenger vehicles - Guidance - GOV.UK

From Glazing - NZTA Vehicle Portal

I didn't think much about this while driving earlier but looking through the middle of the screen over the touch screen in our car would have had me looking at the pavement more than the road, mostly looking slightly left of the centre of the steering wheel except when turning, or parking

That's a weird diagram from the UK government, as it appears to show a left-hand drive car. Or am I missing something?

 

[MrCurry]

That's a weird diagram from the UK government, as it appears to show a left-hand drive car. Or am I missing something?

Depends on your POV

 

[kabbes]

Depends on your POV

Well it does say, "to be measured from the inside of the vehicle" in the second diagram. And the first one shows the steering wheel and rearview mirror in front of the windscreen, not behind it.

I did check these things before posting!

 

[MrCurry]

Well it does say, "to be measured from the inside of the vehicle" in the second diagram. And the first one shows the steering wheel and rearview mirror in front of the windscreen, not behind it.

I did check these things before posting!

Ok fair enough. then.

 

[BigTom]

That's a weird diagram from the UK government, as it appears to show a left-hand drive car. Or am I missing something?

The bottom one is from new zealand, but I've just googled and they also drive on the left hand side of the road...

 

[fishfinger]

Well it does say, "to be measured from the inside of the vehicle" in the second diagram. And the first one shows the steering wheel and rearview mirror in front of the windscreen, not behind it.

I did check these things before posting!

The first image shows the steering wheel behind the windscreen. If it was in front of the windscreen it would not be cut off at the bottom. Likewise, we see the back of the rear view mirror, as viewed from the outside.

 

[kabbes]

The first image shows the steering wheel behind the windscreen. If it was in front of the windscreen it would not be cut off at the bottom. Likewise, we see the back of the rear view mirror, as viewed from the outside.

That's conceivable. It very much looked to me like the wheel was drawn in the foreground, but what you say has merit.

 

[Almor]

Well it does say, "to be measured from the inside of the vehicle" in the second diagram. And the first one shows the steering wheel and rearview mirror in front of the windscreen, not behind it.

I did check these things before posting!

I assumed both were from the outside, and didn't read the text that closely

The first image shows the steering wheel behind the windscreen. If it was in front of the windscreen it would not be cut off at the bottom. Likewise, we see the back of the rear view mirror, as viewed from the outside.

This is how I see it, I think the perspective on the NZ picture implies an outside view? Although I suppose a fair few windscreens are narrower at the top, it's NZ though, so blatantly a ute (pick up truck) windscreen and not fancy trapezoid shaped

 

[teuchter]

The idea that you should be mostly focussed on the middle of the windscreen is quite obviously nonsense made up by platinumsage and yet more evidence that they are a dangerous and uneducated driver.