EDL watch
- Thread starter Das Uberdog
- Start date
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Bit of an odd err from a poster here in the comments. Yes gamerunknown, class against class no longer exists but pointing it out 6 years after the fact in that way is a bit...odd.
Any just to complete the pedantic stakes, the libcom note says 'Text from Class against Class', when it should really say text hosted at class against class. (And we shall rise again, quite soon, in fact)
Any just to complete the pedantic stakes, the libcom note says 'Text from Class against Class', when it should really say text hosted at class against class. (And we shall rise again, quite soon, in fact)
Thunderfist
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that - I did read it at (or around) the time. Re-reading it was useful. A few things sprang out - firstly I agree that anti-fascism is a rearguard action, that it has to exist because of the failure of the 'left'.
Secondly ( and something I hadn't remembered) was the warning of the danger of getting involved in tribal or gang warfare with an opposition that only wants to 'play'. With some sections of the far-right we're there already - as the EDL has splintered and deviated from it's original mission statement we have seen the development of little street groups whose only purpose is a scrap with the left. In a sense this represents a victory - they've retreated from any attempt to create a mainstream movement and instead run around putting up stickers on lefty social centres and outing people online.
However I think there are some crucial differences between anti-fascism in the early nineties and where we have found ourselves now. Thanks to the BNP decision to opt for a purely electoral route and the collapse of the NF there was little or no street fascism to contend with for around 15 years. There were odd (very odd) attempts to march in Dover and Margate by the NF and a few Blood & Honour gigs. Tiny, tiny groupuscules like the British People's banged on about the Illuminati, ZOG and the Rothschilds from the sidelines and very occasionally made a nuisance for themselves.
2009 saw the emergence of the EDL. Unlike the BNP or the NF this was a single issue right wing campaign. It effectively attempted to import the tactics of the Orange March to mainland UK. The EDL are and were and online phenomenon, they don't aim for day to day 'control of the streets' but more the creation of a collective 'common sense', aided and abetted by the mainstream media. There were no public meetings or attempts to leaflet in small groups, let alone stand for election. As a single issue campaign there was never any attempt to outline any kind of social or economic ideas.
A lot of this stuff is obviously shrouded in mystery but it certainly appears that for a while monied US neo-cons were prepared to support the EDL (flying Tommy et al out to the Twin Towers memorial etc) and there was a certain amount of intellectual work being done e.g Gates of Vienna blog on developing a 'clash of civilisations' narrative. So this sentence from "Filling the Vacuum" seemed particularly appropriate "In addition the fear of physical violence means that they are unable to bring their more articulate middle class supporters onto the streets for fear of losing them entirely.". Once opposition to the EDLs marches began to be organised effectively they became punch-ups, even mini-riots. Did anti-fascists win every single encounter? No (but as an old instructor once told me, "you can't swim without getting wet and you can't box without getting hit"), but by making an EDL demo a confrontational experience the intellectual wing faded away. Despite all the online bluster attendances at EDL demos that promised to be heavy (e.g Tower Hamlets, Walthamstow, Bradford) were always markedly lower than those that were going to be an easy ride (e.g Luton or Peterborough)
It's my belief that original plan behind an EDL demo was to force confrontation between the League and local residents in ethnic minority areas in order to present images of an ongoing 'race war' to provoke further conflict and harden public opinion against rioting Muslims. An effect that arguably the NF had achieved with the Bradford Riots. It was and is worth making sure that there is a sizeable 'white' opposition to these ultra-nationalist marches. It muddles the clash of civilisations narrative and extends the hand of solidarity to marginalised groups. (I remember being in Bradford for I think the third EDL demo there, and being dressed as I was, I was approached by four local Asian/Muslim men to suss out if I was EDL - My accent gave me away immediatley - "You're not from Yorkshire are ya?", "No, I've come up from Brighton" , "Brighton? Are you an anarchist? You do a fucking good job you lot" - smiles and handshakes all round)
So we had an active ultra-nationalist/ English loyalist street movement but no obvious mainstream political movement to take advantage of it. The BNPs relationship with the EDL has always been fractious. Some of this might be down to the aforementioned social and economic policy - the BNP were quite lefty in their economic policy, nationalising the railways etc and thus could be seen as direct competitor to the left. The neo-con influence on the EDl meant that whatever scraps of economic or social ideas were expressed were firmly Thatcherite. There was an abortive attempt to create a British Freedom party for about five minutes.
Which brings us onto UKIP. The nationalist street movement has pretty much en masse decided that UKIP is for them. As such they've been waging a campaign of intimidation against anti-UKIP campaigners, especially in Thanet. It really isn't clear to what extent UKIP welcome this - certainly they haven't gone out of their way to condemn it. So now we potentially have a nationalist street movement in alignment with a legal political party, just not under the same banner.
In one sense the challenge should be easier - UKIP do not come at us from the left, their economic and social policies are firmly neo-liberal. Is the left up to the job?
Secondly ( and something I hadn't remembered) was the warning of the danger of getting involved in tribal or gang warfare with an opposition that only wants to 'play'. With some sections of the far-right we're there already - as the EDL has splintered and deviated from it's original mission statement we have seen the development of little street groups whose only purpose is a scrap with the left. In a sense this represents a victory - they've retreated from any attempt to create a mainstream movement and instead run around putting up stickers on lefty social centres and outing people online.
However I think there are some crucial differences between anti-fascism in the early nineties and where we have found ourselves now. Thanks to the BNP decision to opt for a purely electoral route and the collapse of the NF there was little or no street fascism to contend with for around 15 years. There were odd (very odd) attempts to march in Dover and Margate by the NF and a few Blood & Honour gigs. Tiny, tiny groupuscules like the British People's banged on about the Illuminati, ZOG and the Rothschilds from the sidelines and very occasionally made a nuisance for themselves.
2009 saw the emergence of the EDL. Unlike the BNP or the NF this was a single issue right wing campaign. It effectively attempted to import the tactics of the Orange March to mainland UK. The EDL are and were and online phenomenon, they don't aim for day to day 'control of the streets' but more the creation of a collective 'common sense', aided and abetted by the mainstream media. There were no public meetings or attempts to leaflet in small groups, let alone stand for election. As a single issue campaign there was never any attempt to outline any kind of social or economic ideas.
A lot of this stuff is obviously shrouded in mystery but it certainly appears that for a while monied US neo-cons were prepared to support the EDL (flying Tommy et al out to the Twin Towers memorial etc) and there was a certain amount of intellectual work being done e.g Gates of Vienna blog on developing a 'clash of civilisations' narrative. So this sentence from "Filling the Vacuum" seemed particularly appropriate "In addition the fear of physical violence means that they are unable to bring their more articulate middle class supporters onto the streets for fear of losing them entirely.". Once opposition to the EDLs marches began to be organised effectively they became punch-ups, even mini-riots. Did anti-fascists win every single encounter? No (but as an old instructor once told me, "you can't swim without getting wet and you can't box without getting hit"), but by making an EDL demo a confrontational experience the intellectual wing faded away. Despite all the online bluster attendances at EDL demos that promised to be heavy (e.g Tower Hamlets, Walthamstow, Bradford) were always markedly lower than those that were going to be an easy ride (e.g Luton or Peterborough)
It's my belief that original plan behind an EDL demo was to force confrontation between the League and local residents in ethnic minority areas in order to present images of an ongoing 'race war' to provoke further conflict and harden public opinion against rioting Muslims. An effect that arguably the NF had achieved with the Bradford Riots. It was and is worth making sure that there is a sizeable 'white' opposition to these ultra-nationalist marches. It muddles the clash of civilisations narrative and extends the hand of solidarity to marginalised groups. (I remember being in Bradford for I think the third EDL demo there, and being dressed as I was, I was approached by four local Asian/Muslim men to suss out if I was EDL - My accent gave me away immediatley - "You're not from Yorkshire are ya?", "No, I've come up from Brighton" , "Brighton? Are you an anarchist? You do a fucking good job you lot" - smiles and handshakes all round)
So we had an active ultra-nationalist/ English loyalist street movement but no obvious mainstream political movement to take advantage of it. The BNPs relationship with the EDL has always been fractious. Some of this might be down to the aforementioned social and economic policy - the BNP were quite lefty in their economic policy, nationalising the railways etc and thus could be seen as direct competitor to the left. The neo-con influence on the EDl meant that whatever scraps of economic or social ideas were expressed were firmly Thatcherite. There was an abortive attempt to create a British Freedom party for about five minutes.
Which brings us onto UKIP. The nationalist street movement has pretty much en masse decided that UKIP is for them. As such they've been waging a campaign of intimidation against anti-UKIP campaigners, especially in Thanet. It really isn't clear to what extent UKIP welcome this - certainly they haven't gone out of their way to condemn it. So now we potentially have a nationalist street movement in alignment with a legal political party, just not under the same banner.
In one sense the challenge should be easier - UKIP do not come at us from the left, their economic and social policies are firmly neo-liberal. Is the left up to the job?
Fingers
From Tuscany SE22
The EDL had about 7 coppers per EDLer. it was bonkers but they looked a sorry state. i am not sure how many went on the Unity demo as we got stuck into the actual march, then got kettled and did not make it to the unity so went to the pub. I got a bottle in the head by a fash thrown empty beer vessel, stamped on by a police horse and another cop horse pissed on my shoes. All in a good day's work but Londoners won today... as always....
Thunderfist
Well-Known Member
It was o.k but it could have been so much better. Piss poor EDL turn out (they got half the numbers of Britain First in Dudley on the same day which might give us some idea of which way the wind is blowing) and hundreds of cops.
However they did complete their march route and the cops more or less controlled the day. There were two call outs one, by the UAF for the end of the march route and one by the AFN for the beginning. So we were split from the start, meaning that a critical mass was never achieved. It wasn't clear how many locals had heard about the the call-out for Blackhorse Rd station ( the beginning) so opposition there was a small black bloc that got shoved up the road by the cops. By the time the EDL marched around forty or fifty locals had made their way to the start in any case but without everyone being in one place and one time we weren't going to frustrate the cops plans.
Maharani
Just like Heaven
Bloody hell Fingers, how long did the bastards kettle you for?
Shame there weren't the numbers as Thunderfist said. Looking at some YouTube footage and it doesn't look so bad...UAFers were heard visible and sounded strong.
Fingers
From Tuscany SE22
Only for about ten minutes. It was a bit of a half arsed kettle and we escaped out of the back and tried to find another route through the back streets but the police had it covered and they had the helicopter over head so we were always going to be beaten.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
they always give that impression but the illusion of strength never borne out in reality.
btw it is impossible for someone to be heard visible.
Maharani
Just like Heaven
I missed a comma your honour!
It's unfortunate the two separate call outs meant it looked like there were less people against than there actually were - but you're never going to get a majority on a militant black block type action after all. I saw the whole thing and would estimate a peak of about 800 at the Townhall rally, lots of normal people as well as the usual suspects from the far left, Labour, and faith communities. It looked to me like there were at least another 200 people moving up and down Blackhorse Rd showing their opposition to the EDL, a mix of black block, random locals and others.
Did speak to a shop keeper who was confused by the presence of Black and Asian people with the EDL, confusion solved when we realised he thought the Anarcho grouping was the EDL
Total disaster for the EDL they looked a sorry bunch indeed. (I think the up for it locals and the black block did potentially have the numbers to stop the march halfway along Blackhorse Rd, but not the coordination and they weren't all in the same place at once, which isn't a criticism)
Did speak to a shop keeper who was confused by the presence of Black and Asian people with the EDL, confusion solved when we realised he thought the Anarcho grouping was the EDL
Total disaster for the EDL they looked a sorry bunch indeed. (I think the up for it locals and the black block did potentially have the numbers to stop the march halfway along Blackhorse Rd, but not the coordination and they weren't all in the same place at once, which isn't a criticism)
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
At the Blackpool bash a couple of weeks ago, I just got shoved several times by a pig, then forced into the kettle. Worst bit though was the half gallon of police horse slavver I then got on me coat.
Fingers
From Tuscany SE22
At the Blackpool bash a couple of weeks ago, I just got shoved several times by a pig, then forced into the kettle. Worst bit though was the half gallon of police horse slavver I then got on me coat.
I have great police horse piss action photo from yesterday... give me a minute and i will post it up. The EDL had to stagger through it...
malatesta32
Not Serb. No, Really!
nice one all. plod would have been planning this for sometime so not a bad effort by any means. the EDL are clueless and refuse to recognise that they have no leadership, credibility or point. and as for watlhamstow 3: 'As a dog returns to its vomit, so fools repeat their folly.' give it up.
malatesta32
Not Serb. No, Really!
plod pony piss porn.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
'wade through it' surely
malatesta32
Not Serb. No, Really!
idiots. on VE Day. 
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
"I don't pay my taxes for horse sputum to get wasted on unwashed anarchists...."
Maharani
Just like Heaven
Arghhh, bastard wearing a bloody good jacket, showing up the skinheads...
Not making light BTW, I hate the rascits stealing styles of anti racists.
malatesta32
Not Serb. No, Really!
Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
[/QUOTE]
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belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
fucking delusional
Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
If you bothered to read the exchanges on the thread with regard to UKIP, rather than reflex posting literally a minute after me, you'd realise that's it not really your cup of tea.
josef1878
Well-Known Member
They did the same thing a few miles away in Atherton around the same time.
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