EDL watch

[malatesta32]

I'm a bit neutral on it. Im not a fan of people electing themselves as cops, especially if they're generally of low moral fibre themselves. I don't have much sympathy for twats who prey on children though. Plenty of those types show up in far right groups. Maybe their investigations should be closer to home?

i think this is the point with the stinson thing. he had to disguise his dodgy past as although it doesnt equate in anyway with the people he targets he's hardly a moral man mountain. as for fash nonces this is depressingly updated every couple of weeks or so. new 1 coming up soon:
https://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2015/04/12/updated-sex-offenders-list/

 

[malatesta32]

I'm a bit neutral on it. Im not a fan of people electing themselves as cops, especially if they're generally of low moral fibre themselves. I don't have much sympathy for twats who prey on children though. Plenty of those types show up in far right groups. Maybe their investigations should be closer to home?

http://www.wigantoday.net/news/local/four-men-respond-to-appeal-over-mugging-1-7262322

 

[Citizen66]

They're setting up a crime (technically it is entrapment) in order to legitimise their own offending. I don't see this as much different than the US couple who left their garage door open in order to gun down some kid who strayed into it (from the vigilantism pov, obviously I'm not defending the nonce here).

 

[treelover]

what a bunch of utter trumpets

more flags than members.

So why a massive thread, austerity is the issue now.

 

[malatesta32]

So why a massive thread, austerity is the issue now.

are we only allowed to organise about 1 issue? yes austerity is the main issue, but there are still places where the far right are prominent, ie, parts of the north west and north east and need dealing with.

 

[malatesta32]

although this does illustrate treelover's point: hundreds on anti-austerity demo in sheff, 60 fash in rotherham not helping the abuse scandal:
http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local...trations-in-sheffield-and-rotherham-1-7264403

 

[Thunderfist]

So why a massive thread, austerity is the issue now.

In actual fact I'd disagree - austerity is an important issue but climate change and the global social upheaval that is happening and will follow is the main crisis facing us. Combatting ultra-nationalism is important because it offers one set of plausible (but utterly wrong answers) to the crises with which we are faced. Austerity feeds into their agenda too - only it becomes about immigration rather than neo-liberalism.

 

[butchersapron]

Brighton chummy

 

[Thunderfist]

Bristol bookclub warrior.

 

[The39thStep]

In actual fact I'd disagree - austerity is an important issue but climate change and the global social upheaval that is happening and will follow is the main crisis facing us. Combatting ultra-nationalism is important because it offers one set of plausible (but utterly wrong answers) to the crises with which we are faced. Austerity feeds into their agenda too - only it becomes about immigration rather than neo-liberalism.

What about relating to what the working class see as the important issues and the main crisis rather than your own hobby horse?

 

[Thunderfist]

What about relating to what the working class see as the important issues and the main crisis rather than your own hobby horse?

How about you go and find out what the 'working class' think are the important issues and start from there? So many people on here have all the answers as far as the proletariat are concerned and yet for some unfathomable reason politically speaking don't have so much as a pot to piss in.

 

[Citizen66]

How about you go and find out what the 'working class' think are the important issues and start from there? So many people on here have all the answers as far as the proletariat are concerned and yet for some unfathomable reason politically speaking don't have so much as a pot to piss in.

Names?

 

[Joe Reilly]

Austerity feeds into their agenda too - only it becomes about immigration rather than neo-liberalism.

For the liberal left:
Austerity feeds into their agenda too - only it becomes about neo-liberalism rather than immigration.

 

[The39thStep]

How about you go and find out what the 'working class' think are the important issues and start from there? So many people on here have all the answers as far as the proletariat are concerned and yet for some unfathomable reason politically speaking don't have so much as a pot to piss in.

The first sentence describes what the difference is between being pro working class and being a lefty. The IWCA model had at its key what the issues were facing the local working class community.The left bring their own agenda and try and win the working class to it. Which pot would you rather piss in?

 

[The Black Hand]

The first sentence describes what the difference is between being pro working class and being a lefty. The IWCA model had at its key what the issues were facing the local working class community.The left bring their own agenda and try and win the working class to it. Which pot would you rather piss in?

Am I right in saying that the IWCA don't exist anymore?

The 'class' is all over the place, so I'm not convinced by getting the blanket and throwing it over the puddle for 'the working class' - it's ALL process, if you aren't having a dialogue its meaningless, however similar tunes repeated ad nauseum is sterile...

 

[Citizen66]

The grande finale.

 

[Citizen66]

My money is on Thunderfist.

 

[The39thStep]

Am I right in saying that the IWCA don't exist anymore?

The 'class' is all over the place, so I'm not convinced by getting the blanket and throwing it over the puddle for 'the working class' - it's ALL process, if you aren't having a dialogue its meaningless, however similar tunes repeated ad nauseum is sterile...

morning saviour

 

[Thunderfist]

What about relating to what the working class see as the important issues and the main crisis rather than your own hobby horse?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I read this as you saying that you have a mandate to speak for the working class - I'm just wondering where that mandate came from and what mechanisms you have in place (now, not a quarter of a century ago) to respond to your constituency?

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I read this as you saying that you have a mandate to speak for the working class - I'm just wondering where that mandate came from and what mechanisms you have in place (now, not a quarter of a century ago) to respond to your constituency?

I read that as the working class having a mandate to speak for the working class, and me having a responsibility to listen and learn.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Thunderfist]

I read that as the working class having a mandate to speak for the working class, and me having a responsibility to listen and learn.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

So you're not part of the working class?

 

[Louis MacNeice]

So you're not part of the working class?

1. I am dependent on selling my labour power; so the answer is yes.

2. I am an academic with good job security and earnings, some managerial responsibilities and a role in reproducing labour; so the answer is no.

3. I don't presume to speak for anybody, unlike yourself; 'climate change and the global social upheaval that is happening and will follow is the main crisis facing us [the working class?]' .

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Thunderfist]

I only speak for myself - that's just my analysis. By 'us' in a climate change context I think I'm talking about a species not a class.We are already in the middle of the greatest forced migration since 1945 - it is of course a very complicated phenomenon, but resource wars and climate change are very important factors. Just one example is http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/WCAS-D-13-00059.1.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

I only speak for myself - that's just my analysis. By 'us' in a climate change context I think I'm talking about a species not a class.We are already in the middle of the greatest forced migration since 1945 - it is of course a very complicated phenomenon, but resource wars and climate change are very important factors. Just one example is http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/WCAS-D-13-00059.1.

You say you only speak for yourself and then jump straight into setting priorities for the whole human race; you can see the all too apparent contradiction can't you?

Another approach could be to find out what working class people, where they live and where they work, think needs fixing. Then try to work with them to develop fixes which defend and promote principles such as freedom, solidarity, equality and sustainability.

Do you not think that this sort of activity might gain greater purchase than telling people what the 'main crisis' is? We - that is those of us who claim to be pro-working class - might even end up having something better than 'a pot to piss in'.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[belboid]

If you believe the greatest threat facing humanity - and thus the working class- is climate change that will be irreversible within 30 years, then there is surely only one campaign that you could be involved in, whether that is recognised by the wider class or not.

And what kind of answer you get when asking people what needs fixing depends very much on how you ask it. Thus we see peoples priorities being very different when asked the same question for local or national elections

 

[Pickman's model]

The first sentence describes what the difference is between being pro working class and being a lefty. The IWCA model had at its key what the issues were facing the local working class community.The left bring their own agenda and try and win the working class to it. Which pot would you rather piss in?

which pot would he rather drink from?

 

[Citizen66]

And is it half full or half empty?

 

[Pickman's model]

In actual fact I'd disagree - austerity is an important issue but climate change and the global social upheaval that is happening and will follow is the main crisis facing us. Combatting ultra-nationalism is important because it offers one set of plausible (but utterly wrong answers) to the crises with which we are faced. Austerity feeds into their agenda too - only it becomes about immigration rather than neo-liberalism.

i take it you've wilfully ignored the thread about people who have killed themselves because of austerity. i suppose you aren't too fussed about people needing to use food banks, nor about people losing their jobs because of the government's austerity policies. for a lot of people austerity and combating it is a more immediate struggle than worrying about the effects of climate change, which are probably a bit further off than next month, next week or indeed tomorrow. i thought you were one of those clapton fans who so likes to through their weight about. perhaps you could engage brain before farting about what the most important issues are, because the most PRESSING issues are austerity and the divides in the working class it fosters and exacerbates: and then, being as it isn't going to kill us all next week, climate change. in your job - i assume you've got one - do you never have to prioritise your work?

 

[newbie]

through their weight about.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

If you believe the greatest threat facing humanity - and thus the working class- is climate change that will be irreversible within 30 years, then there is surely only one campaign that you could be involved in, whether that is recognised by the wider class or not.

And what kind of answer you get when asking people what needs fixing depends very much on how you ask it. Thus we see peoples priorities being very different when asked the same question for local or national elections

Do you believe it? If so what do you suggest can practically be done, which will engage people where they are? If not; why not?

As for how you ask the question, of course you're right. Given the current weakness of pro-working class politics, I'd be inclined to ask questions with a smaller/local/specific focus rather than ones couched in large/global/general terms.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice