EDL watch

[Citizen66]

So whose going to pull HnH for refering to a cypriot EDL'er as Stavros.

I don't think you'll find many HnH fans on here.

 

[SpineyNorman]

So whose going to pull HnH for refering to a cypriot EDL'er as Stavros. It's hypocritical to use racial stereotyping whilst campaigning against, errr racial stereotyping in my book. And to attack them for being "thick" is as equally offensive. The reason they attend or support EDL events is because they need educating, not attacked for their lack of it. Smug know-it-all "lefties" who like to impose their intellect on their lessers is not the fundamental base of working class ideology that i would align to. Ironically i will probably get shouted down on here now by people using long words that i do not understand the meaning of. Poor old working class scum that iam.

Have a read of the thread Jeremy. You'll find that most of us do oppose the kind of stuff you're complaining about here and have been quite vociferous in our opposition.

 

[malatesta32]

What useful function does all the classist and sexist bollocks serve for the anti-fascist cause other than making people who *might* be attracted to groups like the EDL but may also be argued out of it becoming convinced that anti-fascists are middle class pricks that they have nothing in common with?

none. i do not slag people off for the class background but for their actions. read the blog.

 

[malatesta32]

My point is that they're joined up.

i know they have. but some are turning up for croydon and some are meeting them at woolwich. either way there will be a fuck all display of antifasicm from U75 as usual.

 

[malatesta32]

useful?
http://twitpic.com/photos/StopEVF

 

[Jeremy Vile]

Have a read of the thread Jeremy. You'll find that most of us do oppose the kind of stuff you're complaining about here and have been quite vociferous in our opposition.

Ok mate fair do's. Im a late comer on here and not read everything. I just find the double standards appalling at times

 

[SpineyNorman]

i know they have. but some are turning up for croydon and some are meeting them at woolwich. either way there will be a fuck all display of antifasicm from U75 as usual.

Not everyone can afford to go swanning across the country every time the EDL have a demo.

 

[DotCommunist]

Ok mate fair do's. Im a late comer on here and not read everything. I just find the double standards appalling at times

for the last two pages we have been discussing the class prejudice displayed by some so called antifa websites

 

[ddraig]

some examples of it here
https://twitter.com/search?q=#asktommyrobinson&src=hash

 

[Jeremy Vile]

for the last two pages we have been discussing the class prejudice displayed by some so called antifa websites

Yes i fucking know that, hence my comments. I wasn't aware HnH was not on the christmas list though.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

You're a fucking idiot. There's really nothing more to say.

Yes there is. There is an observation to made about the vapidity of people who throw unsubstantiated ad hom insults around the place. I've just been discussing economics with a 19 year old racist who made a better account of himself than you, and he didn't make a good one.

 

[DotCommunist]

Yes there is. There is an observation to made about the vapidity of people who throw unsubstantiated ad hom insults around the place. I've just been discussing economics with a 19 year old racist who made a better account of himself than you, and he didn't make a good one.

some egs on way off life
- do rubish job you hate or no job and no money
- crap wether most of time
- town looks grey and concreet evrywhere
- everyone rips you of (agane dont say too much about this sounds leftie if you do)
- maybe drink a lot
- football x factor or britain got talunt are high light of week
- blame muslims and imigrunts for any off above that is bad
- think about muslims having sex with kids

winning hearts and minds

 

[Delroy Booth]

There is an observation to made about the vapidity of people who throw unsubstantiated ad hom insults around the place.

unsubstantiated? I think that shitty blog you've been writing is all the substantiation I need to know you're a gobshite.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

So whose going to pull HnH for refering to a cypriot EDL'er as Stavros. It's hypocritical to use racial stereotyping whilst campaigning against, errr racial stereotyping in my book. And to attack them for being "thick" is as equally offensive. The reason they attend or support EDL events is because they need educating, not attacked for their lack of it. Smug know-it-all "lefties" who like to impose their intellect on their lessers is not the fundamental base of working class ideology that i would align to. Ironically i will probably get shouted down on here now by people using long words that i do not understand the meaning of. Poor old working class scum that iam.

If a person uses stupid arguments, regardless of subject or background of that person, it is legit to describe them as such. It may not be strategically wise, but it is legit.

If you think the EDL need "educating" how far removed are you from the attitudes you are decrying?

Some more general points

i) I am the first to have a go at people who deride appearance and possible (lack of) employment status of EDLers. But such instances are rare.

ii) Likewise, most of the people who I've come across regularly laughing at the EDL spend a lot more time in serious discussion of the issues along lines not dis similar from discussed here. The amount of people who just go "hahahahahah thicko" without far deeper discussion around and about the issues of culture, faith, economics etc. are very small.

iii) As such, there is just as much a risk of stereotypes being cooked up about "self appointed lefty moralisers" by lefties who are er...self appointing and somewhat moralising.

iv) There is no causal link I can see between bigotry/ignorance and class. People from all classes make poor cases with poor logic.

To say "you are laughing at someone because of their class" when one is laughing at someone for stupid bigotry, fallacious logic etc. is to assume that causal link in fact or in the mind of the laugher. It is prejudiced in itself.

v) Reasoned engagement is almost as likely to alienate a bigot as outright laughter. The "alienation of laughter" argument is rather over stated.

 

[butchersapron]

Have a look at his tory one which he's spamming around everywhere. He's rabid. Proper frothing rabid.

 

[Citizen66]

If a person uses stupid arguments, regardless of subject or background of that person, it is legit to describe them as such. It may not be strategically wise, but it is legit.

If you think the EDL need "educating" how far removed are you from the attitudes you are decrying?

Some more general points

i) I am the first to have a go at people who deride appearance and possible (lack of) employment status of EDLers. But such instances are rare.

ii) Likewise, most of the people who I've come across regularly laughing at the EDL spend a lot more time in serious discussion of the issues along lines not dis similar from discussed here. The amount of people who just go "hahahahahah thicko" without far deeper discussion around and about the issues of culture, faith, economics etc. are very small.

iii) As such, there is just as much a risk of stereotypes being cooked up about "self appointed lefty moralisers" by lefties who are er...self appointing and somewhat moralising.

iv) There is no causal link I can see between bigotry/ignorance and class. People from all classes make poor cases with poor logic.

To say "you are laughing at someone because of their class" when one is laughing at someone for stupid bigotry, fallacious logic etc. is to assume that causal link in fact or in the mind of the laugher. It is prejudiced in itself.

v) Reasoned engagement is almost as likely to alienate a bigot as outright laughter. The "alienation of laughter" argument is rather over stated.

It's because you're generalising everyone in the EDL to fit your stereotype of a thick working class person you daft cunt.

 

[butchersapron]

I have no faith whatsoever that someone whose thinks the below is good (or better) doesn't go around looking at all sorts of people thinking that this is how they think based on their appearance:

some egs on way off life
- do rubish job you hate or no job and no money
- crap wether most of time
- town looks grey and concreet evrywhere
- everyone rips you of (agane dont say too much about this sounds leftie if you do)
- maybe drink a lot
- football x factor or britain got talunt are high light of week
- blame muslims and imigrunts for any off above that is bad
- think about muslims having sex with kids

It's just so far beyond crude and revealing that i find it hard to believe that it's been offered in public.

 

[cesare]

i know they have. but some are turning up for croydon and some are meeting them at woolwich. either way there will be a fuck all display of antifasicm from U75 as usual.

You actually don't know what urban posters do or don't do re antifascism, because anyone involved is unlikely to be posting it. On the other hand you lot can't get your facts straight eg Woolwich last time. So don't start having a pop.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

unsubstantiated? I think that shitty blog you've been writing is all the substantiation I need to know you're a gobshite.

winning hearts and minds

The blog isn't actually aimed at EDL people, to win their "hearts and minds".

It grew out of many hours of trying to engage fairly seriously with people who could barely argue their way out of a paper bag, but felt qualified in spreading as much hatred as they could manage.

It was aimed as light relief for me and quite a lot of other people. They happen to like it. You guys don't. It divides opinion. Zowie.

What Dot Communist links to is refering to the fact that "the way of life" the bigot so often falls back on as an argument is, thanks mostly to capitalism and environmental degradation, full of struggle and not necessarily worthy of promotion. Why are they bigging it up so much?

I stand by it, you don't like it. Life goes on.

And yes, lots of EDLers do seem to think about muslims having sex with children rather too much, it's fucking weird and pointing it out is no great sin.

 

[DotCommunist]

what is it with prats and appeal to debate club logic.

 

[butchersapron]

No one likes it. You poor deluded fool.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Butchers

- do rubish job you hate or no job and no money
Employment opportunities are often rare, uninspiring and ill paid.
- crap wether most of time
Subjective, but most would concur. Not that controversial a point.- town looks grey and concreet evrywhere
Environmental degradation and neglect, especially in urban areas - again, is that controversial?
- everyone rips you of (agane dont say too much about this sounds leftie if you do)
Capitalism. Uncontroversial round here I would think.
- maybe drink a lot
Which people sometimes do for a variety of reasons, regardless of class. Plenty of stats to back this up.
- football x factor or britain got talunt are high light of week
Seems to be true, this seems the most dubious of them on re-reading but is hardly a shocker or "far beyond crude" especially on a board with some of the ad hom language I see here.
- blame muslims and imigrunts for any off above that is bad
Pretty standard right wing tenet, possibly too generalised.
- think about muslims having sex with kid
As I said before, it's an obsession of the phobe and some of them could probably do with help


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If that's really "far beyond crude" perhaps you are not as widely read as I thought Butch. As a critique of modern life in Britain there's far more cutting ones to be found, if anything it's quite mild.

And just what is this "way of life" they go on about?

That's what the piece is attacking, and what no one here seems to have engaged with (should they want a serious discussion).

Again, the hypocrisy of throwing names and generalised insults around at people for allegedly throwing names and generalised insults about...well I'll leave it there.

 

[butchersapron]

Oh just shut up you rabid dog.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

No one likes it. You poor deluded fool.

Apart from the people that go out of their way to say so time and again, you may have a point.

I'm not bigging that up, but you're not in a position to judge what other people think.

7,000,000,000 people on a ball of rock will tend to throw up variance of opinion that not even you could accurately categorise in entirety.

I know some time ago you said the people who said they like it were "making it up to be polite". Perhaps some are, but to say that all are is, once more, every bit as arrogant and deluded as you accuse me of being.

One pattern I've noticed is that the people who praise it more tend to be those who have tried to seriously engage with EDLers more. That's not scientifically measured, which I'm happy to admit - rather than just concoct something out of thin air and assume it to be true.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Oh just shut up you rabid dog.

Like the young racist I was speaking to, once a bit of level headed discussion looks more likely, out come the names and the disengage.

I've said it for years, too often you can give it out but you can't take it back. Classic bully trait, but I know it is far beneath you really.

 

[Red Storm]

Satire? This drivel you write and that these people post in their comments -you think that's satire? You're an idiot.

Disgusting.

 

[Citizen66]

He can't even see what's bad about it.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

one more point about that blog - I've always welcomed the discussion here and taken the points seriously. However, opposition on the basis expressed here is very rare beyond here.

In fact, most people who dislike it do so because they think it is serious. That happens quite a lot. Lots of people say they can hardly tell the difference, that it's very well done (their words) or warn me that it could be taken seriously.

That to me is pretty substantive evidence that it has a point, that the fallacious stupidity of the modern islamaphobe / racist is so severe that even what should be overt piss-takes look average by comparison.

There happens to be far more to it than "hahahahahahahah thickie EDLer can't spell", but people will see what they want to see I guess. I would have got bored of it pretty quickly if that was the case.

Note, I'm not the one who brought it up on this occasion. Right to reply and all that.

 

[Citizen66]

none. i do not slag people off for the class background but for their actions. read the blog.

I never suggested you did. This all started IIRC because you refused to condemn those that do. Your enemy's enemy isn't always your friend mate.

 

[Citizen66]

one more point about that blog - I've always welcomed the discussion here and taken the points seriously. However, opposition on the basis expressed here is very rare beyond here.

In fact, most people who dislike it do so because they think it is serious. That happens quite a lot. Lots of people say they can hardly tell the difference, that it's very well done (their words) or warn me that it could be taken seriously.

That to me is pretty substantive evidence that it has a point, that the fallacious stupidity of the modern islamaphobe / racist is so severe that even what should be overt piss-takes look average by comparison.

There happens to be far more to it than "hahahahahahahah thickie EDLer can't spell", but people will see what they want to see I guess. I would have got bored of it pretty quickly if that was the case.

Note, I'm not the one who brought it up on this occasion. Right to reply and all that.

It says something about your readership and you and nothing else.