EDL watch

[malatesta32]

Well, he is a c***. People have been calling him that for a while, though.

yeah mainly his foot soldiers!

 

[SpackleFrog]

It's Andrew Gilligan ffs it's not like he hasn't got form. His previous article about TellMAMA and how anti-muslim attacks are made up was a risible attempt to excuse and apologise for the EDL terrorising muslims - regardless of how accurate TellMAMA is there's been a definite increase in anti-muslim bigotry, this is not something conjoured up out of the imaginations of the Vast Islamo-Marxist Left-wing Globalist conspiracy. Surely he must realise that article would come back to haunt him the next time some Breivik type nutter goes and kills a load of people?

My original point though was how easy UAF make it for right wing rags to launch these kind of attack pieces. I'm not trying to defend Andrew Gilligan.

 

[belboid]

It's Andrew Gilligan ffs it's not like he hasn't got form.

it's not just Andrew Gilligan - its Andrew Gilligan making extensive use of a LibDem arsehole who went on an EDL demo. So they both have substantial amount of form.

Interesting how the paragraph on Martin Smith is followed by one about a 'senior UAF officer who cannot be name for legal reasons' being investigated for rape.

My original point though was how easy UAF make it for right wing rags to launch these kind of attack pieces. I'm not trying to defend Andrew Gilligan.

the right-wing will find any excuse to do that anyway, whether its some people allegedly standing on a war memorial or one person waving an 'islamist' flag about. Fuck it.

 

[Delroy Booth]

l find any excuse to do that anyway, whether its some people allegedly standing on a war memorial or one person waving an 'islamist' flag about. Fuck it.

Note the use of the quotation marks.

 

[belboid]

Note the use of the quotation marks.

try and imagine why they are used. No one has identified the flag on the Sheffield demo as being from any organisation, so its affiliation is still somewhat vague (although, probably, islamist). Also you could consider the discussion earlier in the thread about the difference between 'islamists' and 'jihadists' and how that is relevant. And, just consider the fact that ANY flag with Arabic writing on would have been described as an 'islamist' one by the EDL.

 

[J Ed]

I think it's fine to play down the obviously sympathetic to the fash Lib Dem bullshit but the Azad Ali stuff is indisputable, and very worrying.

 

[Delroy Booth]

try and imagine why they are used. No one has identified the flag on the Sheffield demo as being from any organisation, so its affiliation is still somewhat vague (although, probably, islamist).

It really isn't vague. That flag is an islamist flag, the white shahada on a blackground is specfically al-Queada, and universally recognised as such.

Also you could consider the discussion earlier in the thread about the difference between 'islamists' and 'jihadists' and how that is relevant. And, just consider the fact that ANY flag with Arabic writing on would have been described as an 'islamist' one by the EDL.

Perhaps that's true, that any Arabic writing on a flag would be seen as Islamist, however in this instance the flag in question actually is an Islamist one, associated worldwide with Al-Queada, so just as a stopped clock is right twice a day the EDL would happen to be right in describing this one as an Islamist flag.

 

[SpackleFrog]

it's not just Andrew Gilligan - its Andrew Gilligan making extensive use of a LibDem arsehole who went on an EDL demo. So they both have substantial amount of form.

Interesting how the paragraph on Martin Smith is followed by one about a 'senior UAF officer who cannot be name for legal reasons' being investigated for rape.


the right-wing will find any excuse to do that anyway, whether its some people allegedly standing on a war memorial or one person waving an 'islamist' flag about. Fuck it.

Based on UAF/UAF milieu I've had the pleasure of working with, I doubt these are alleged incidents at all. Recently I've had the joy of of UAF types explaining that anybody laying flowers on a war memorial at all is somehow "imperialist" and should be opposed. You can say the media will make anti-fash look like dick heads, sure, but that doesn't mean it doesn't matter if you act like dicks.

 

[belboid]

Identify the group to whom it belongs then. You didnt even know the word 'shahada' until I used it on this thread, so your attempt to pretend to be wise and knowing on the subject is a tad unconvincing, to say the least. Especially as not all such flags are associated with the group known as Al Qaeda.

 

[SpackleFrog]

It really isn't vague. That flag is an islamist flag, the white shahada on a blackground is specfically al-Queada, and universally recognised as such.



Perhaps that's true, that any Arabic writing on a flag would be seen as Islamist, however in this instance the flag in question actually is an Islamist one, associated worldwide with Al-Queada, so just as a stopped clock is right twice a day the EDL would happen to be right in describing this one as an Islamist flag.

I'm not saying it's not a 'Jihadi' flag Del but I haven't seen any evidence to say it definitely is. I don't wanna restart this discussion though so unless anyone can offer proof that that flag was 'Jihadi' lets leave it.

Incidentally, is this 'Islamist' word useful? Can we not come up with a better word? It just sounds so much like Islamic I don't really like it.

 

[SpackleFrog]

I think it's fine to play down the obviously sympathetic to the fash Lib Dem bullshit but the Azad Ali stuff is indisputable, and very worrying.

Exactly Josephine, it brings popular frontism to an insane conclusion.

 

[treelover]

try and imagine why they are used. No one has identified the flag on the Sheffield demo as being from any organisation, so its affiliation is still somewhat vague (although, probably, islamist). Also you could consider the discussion earlier in the thread about the difference between 'islamists' and 'jihadists' and how that is relevant. And, just consider the fact that ANY flag with Arabic writing on would have been described as an 'islamist' one by the EDL.

I note you make little differentiation between the vast range of people on an EDL demo: from the hardcore racists and Nazi's to the fellow travellers, to youngsters who are on the first demo and not even sure why they are there.


and indeed their handsignals

nuance is available for identifying jihadi's, etc but not the same on EDL events

not endorsing them just asking for consistency

 

[belboid]

I note you make little differentiation between the vast range of people on an EDL demo: from the hardcore racists and Nazi's to the fellow travellers, to youngsters who are on the first demo and not even sure why they are there.

nuance is available for identifying jihadi's, etc but not the same on EDL events

please point out where I have described people on the EDL demo at all.

You cant, because I havent. Once again, you are making things up. That's at least half a dozen times on this thread alone.

(oh, and learn what 'nuance' actually means before trying to use it in a sentence)

 

[Delroy Booth]

I'm not saying it's not a 'Jihadi' flag Del but I haven't seen any evidence to say it definitely is. I don't wanna restart this discussion though so unless anyone can offer proof that that flag was 'Jihadi' lets leave it.

Well yeah ok if it's this flag -

Then it's jihadi. If it's a different flag of a similar design it might be different, but if it's a Shahada on a black background it's as likely to be jihadi as a swastika is likely to be nazism.

 

[Delroy Booth]

Identify the group to whom it belongs then.

Well there isn't one group there's several. It's most commonly associated with Al-Queada, but other jihadi groups, such as Al-Shabab or MUJAO, have been known to use it from time to time.

 

[Dogsauce]

A comment you see quite often on the bottom half of the internet (Local newspaper comment sections in particular) is that the EDL and UAF are 'as bad as each other'. It's this kind of article that feeds that.

There are dubious fringe characters in both groups to be fair, but anyone seeing the groups as equivalent isn't really thinking it through.

 

[Delroy Booth]

You didnt even know the word 'shahada' until I used it on this thread.....

This is pretty funny though.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Well yeah ok if it's this flag -

Then it's jihadi. If it's a different flag of a similar design it might be different, but if it's a Shahada on a black background it's as likely to be jihadi as a swastika is likely to be nazism.

What does it mean?

 

[Delroy Booth]

What does it mean?

There is no god but Allah, Muhammad is the messenger of God.

The shahada itself is just a standard slogan, it's not associated with anything explicitly terrorist or jihadi.

The Black Flag is the generic symbol of Al-Queada and other Salafist or ultra-Islamist militia's throughout the world, it's currently quite popular in Syria where you'll see it draped over the cars and vehicles of Al-Nusrah and their allies.

 

[SpackleFrog]

So the flag doesn't actually say "death to all non-believers" or anything...but its used by Al-Qaeda/Islamic Fundamentalist groups? Hmmmm.

 

[laptop]

So the flag doesn't actually say "death to all non-believers" or anything...but its used by Al-Qaeda/Islamic Fundamentalist groups? Hmmmm.

Welll... the Union Flag literally asks us to celebrate the lives of Andrew the Palestinian Jew, David the Welsh person and George, born to a Roman soldier in Palestine but linked to Greek culture in what is now Turkey. But the BNP et al use it all the same...

 

[cesare]

Welll... the Union Flag literally asks us to celebrate the lives of Andrew the Palestinian Jew, David the Welsh person and George, born to a Roman soldier in Palestine but linked to Greek culture in what is now Turkey. But the BNP et al use it all the same...

Patrick not David?

 

[ddraig]

no Welsh in the union flag

 

[Corax]

no Welsh in the union flag

Ain't no taff in the union... er... staff!

 

[laptop]

no Welsh in the union flag

Whoops. Patrick, born in Banwen (near Neath, South Wales).

So I was right by accident on the origins

 

[barney_pig]

So the flag doesn't actually say "death to all non-believers" or anything...but its used by Al-Qaeda/Islamic Fundamentalist groups? Hmmmm.

The swastika is a Buddhist symbol of good luck, when skinhead jim has it tattooed on his forehead it is because of his devotion to the bodhisattva

 

[SpackleFrog]

I've been speaking to a few muslims and they tell me that this symbol is one they've grown up with, that its one of the Pillars of Islam and that its only recently been taken up by Jihadi groups. In fact they weren't even aware Jihadi groups used it until this thing in Sheffield and believed others would not be aware of it. Apparently its often used on bookmarks, phone cases and profile pics by young muslims.

They also today me that Jihad means simply 'struggle' which was embarrassing for me...

 

[SpackleFrog]

The swastika is a Buddhist symbol of good luck, when skinhead jim has it tattooed on his forehead it is because of his devotion to the bodhisattva

Don't be such a sarky twat.

 

[barney_pig]

Don't be such a sarky twat.

I am being snarky, but you are being disingenuous, the script is commonly used throughout islam but in context, when displayed on a black banner it is a jihadist standard. I do not know whether the Muslims you have spoken to are being polite or genuinely do not recognise that it is a jihadist trope, in the same way as an Irish person who is politically involved may recognise the Celtic cross but have no idea of its use as a fascist symbol.

 

[protesticals]

I've been speaking to a few muslims and they tell me that this symbol is one they've grown up with, that its one of the Pillars of Islam and that its only recently been taken up by Jihadi groups. In fact they weren't even aware Jihadi groups used it until this thing in Sheffield and believed others would not be aware of it. Apparently its often used on bookmarks, phone cases and profile pics by young muslims.

They also today me that Jihad means simply 'struggle' which was embarrassing for me...

Speaking to a few muslims huh? yeah right.